Giraffe Boards

[pepperlandgirl]

Veb, am I misremembering? I thought Fathom got its start when Melin was banned, not satan.

You're not misremembering. Melin was banned and FFF was formed just a few months before I registered on the SDMB (then I believe she was banned from FFF, too). I thought all that happened before Veb became a mod over there?

I've never posted at the SDMB so my opinion may not be worth as much as the many long time posters, but I have read the boards almost every day for a long time. I did sign up as a charter member when pay to post was implemented because I enjoyed reading and wanted to help keep the SDMB functioning. The recent events and actions by Ed led me to here, I have also joined at Giraffe Boards. While both boards seem worthwhile, I believe ultimately one board would be the better solution. If the refugees from the SDMB (and I believe the SDMB is on a downward spiral from which it may not recover) must either chose between boards or divide their attentions between them, it diminishes both. I urge both CRSP and Giraffe (and their board members) to work together to come to a solution that welcomes all members of the SDMB to a common site. By the way, thanks everyone for entertaining and enlightening me on the Dope since I discovered it.

[featherlou]

<snip> While both boards seem worthwhile, I believe ultimately one board would be the better solution. If the refugees from the SDMB (and I believe the SDMB is on a downward spiral from which it may not recover) must either chose between boards or divide their attentions between them, it diminishes both.<snip>

That's it, in a nutshell. I was very sorry to see this happen. I hope both boards can thrive, but this is a problem for both.

[Dragon]

No problem for me. I can do all three. I have signed up and posted at both these new ones. I like them both. Plus I do others also. I gave up reading every post way back in AOHell SD days. Time is what I put where I want, just like reading books and watching TV or.......

IMO, limiting myself to just one place is just that. Limiting. YMMV

[Tinker]

I think Giraffe's comments about vBulletin versus phpBB were more to make herself feel better about having forked out the cash for the license. Personally I've always preferred phpBB which has a nice development community and can be setup for free. The Giraffe boards look like the Dope, which has always had a hideously ugly color scheme. A lot of the things being recreated from the dope are things that are not needed. phpBB can be edited so it looks much cleaner.

Here is a phpBB layout that I like at another board, very easy to read, very clean. http://spengler.atimes.net/

All in all I think this board is being run very well and I like the process. I didn't come here out of resentment for the dope like so many others, I came here just because I got an invite and figured I'd follow the link. I could care less about the Dope's policies, I just think it's culture has stagnated, and I enjoy it being shaken up. Having close to 500 posters is plenty to keep a message board hopping, it doesn't need 50,000. That we've almost reached the 500 mark here shows that regardless of who comes here, it will be a viable and vibrant message board.

[Veb]

You're not misremembering. Melin was banned and FFF was formed just a few months before I registered on the SDMB (then I believe she was banned from FFF, too). I thought all that happened before Veb became a mod over there?

::headslap:: Of course it was Melin.

This is what happens when age starts destroying brain cells, kids. Why, I remember back when...uh, who are you people? Am I wearing underwear?

[Exy]

It seems pretty clear looking around at Giraffe's board that it's not intended as a replacement for the SDMB and that there won't be any effort to make it function that way, which makes it sort of purposeless. It also looks like fried hell, which will make it unpleasant to use. Plus I'm not imagining I'd be welcome there.

So I recommend that Crispy pursue an aggressive policy in which everyone who posts at Giraffe Board is immediately banned here. If we take care of the fencesitters we can come to a useful resolution to the matter quickly.

[Julie]

There have been some really mean-spirited posts in the merge thread on GB and in this one. I'm disappointed to read them, since both boards are populated by people I like.

I don't think it has to be contentious and ugly. I just don't.

[SilverTygerGirl]

So far I like here better than Giraffe's, but I'll continue lurking there. I see no reason why the boards really need to merge - they seem to have different feels and purposes, and it's not like people can't (or aren't) post at both.

[featherlou]

There have been some really mean-spirited posts in the merge thread on GB and in this one. I'm disappointed to read them, since both boards are populated by people I like.

I don't think it has to be contentious and ugly. I just don't.

I agree. Either we'll end up with three boards that are very similar, or we'll end up merging these two splinter boards. It's probably not a good idea to be ugly to people you'll end up sharing a board with later on.

[Giraffe]

Plus I'm not imagining I'd be welcome there.

You're 100% wrong about that. I fought tooth and nail against your banning, and think it diminished the SDMB.

You are of course free to not join or post at the new board (heck, everyone is!), but you are definitely welcome.

[Exy]

It's probably not a good idea to be ugly to people you'll end up sharing a board with later on.

Are you kidding? I'm waiting for the new BBQ Pit to heat up so I can start being ugly to people I already share a board with. :mrgreen:

[RedFury]

Haven't read the whole thread mostly due to a lack of interest. As much as I like Giraffe (and I've said as much publicly on The Dope), I feel I already owe some semblance of loyalty to CRSP. Not only did he move quickly but he was kind enough to send an invite my way rather fast as well. So just from that perspective, my mind's already made-up -- I'll sink or swim here.

And as much as I wish Giraffe all the best in his new endeavor, and I do, I honestly have more than enough with one forum to post in. Besides, this place's already grown on me; sort of like a fungus. A good fungus mind you.

Guess you kids are stuck with me for the time being.

[featherlou]

It's probably not a good idea to be ugly to people you'll end up sharing a board with later on.

Are you kidding? I'm waiting for the new BBQ Pit to heat up so I can start being ugly to people I already share a board with. :mrgreen:

Eh, you're right. I forgot the people to whom I was speaking.

[dread pirate jimbo]

Personally, I think the two new boards can co-exist peacefully and even be mutually beneficial by inviting open participation across both boards. As they grow and evolve, they might begin to take on two different cultural feels, with different agendas and elements which complement each other, rather than competing for the same space. If at some point in the future the boards decide to merge, I'm there. In the meantime, I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

[Tuckerfan]

Personally, I think the two new boards can co-exist peacefully and even be mutually beneficial by inviting open participation across both boards. As they grow and evolve, they might begin to take on two different cultural feels, with different agendas and elements which complement each other, rather than competing for the same space. If at some point in the future the boards decide to merge, I'm there. In the meantime, I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

Maybe there should be a sticky in one of the forums listing everyone's favorite message boards. This could include links to the various splinterboards as well as non-splinterboards.

[elmwood]

I think Giraffe's comments about vBulletin versus phpBB were more to make herself feel better about having forked out the cash for the license. Personally I've always preferred phpBB which has a nice development community and can be setup for free. The Giraffe boards look like the Dope, which has always had a hideously ugly color scheme. A lot of the things being recreated from the dope are things that are not needed. phpBB can be edited so it looks much cleaner.

I run a vBulletin-based message board, and IMHO it's far superior to phpBB. There's more plugins, and they're quite easy to install; most don't require code hacking. There's also many integration scripts, so vBulletin can be seamlessly integrated with MediaWiki, various gallery programs, and so on. vBulletin is more customizable even without hacks. It's also more secure. vBulletin also has outstanding customer support, and a very active hack community.

One feature that even most free message boards have now -- display of the name of the most recently updated thread on the main forum page -- is still missing in the most recent version of phpBB.

Not to spam, but here's my vBulletin-based site:

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/

Not too shabby looking, IMHO.

One thing about vBulletin that peeved me: default phrases were inconsistent with their use of case. Some phrases used sentence case, Others Used Title Case, and Others were Quite inconsistent. I spent quite a bit of time in the Languages and Phrases section of the control panel to get the capitalization of phrases on the user side consistent.

Anyhow, back to Domebo vs Giraffe. I think Domebo will be the more successful spinoff, even though it uses inferior software IMHO. It doesn't have the feel of a vanity board, where the focus seems to be on the administrator; e.g. Skip's Magic Board, Fabulous Forums of Fathom, and to a lesser extent Unaboard. Cyburbia is Cyburbia, not Dan's Urban Planning Place. Domebo is Domebo, not CRSP's Dungeon. The focus is on the community, not the admin.

[elmwood]

Also, I run http://www.teemings.org, which was intended as a refugee camp for Dopers should the board go offline thanks to Ed pulling the plug, Creative Loafing being liquidated, or some other disaster. It was intended as a temporary board, until either the SDMB returned, or someone else started a viable replacement. I'm willing to turn over the teemings.org domain name to CRSP; I've got no interest in running yet another splinter board, as long as a replacement like Domebo is online.

I think Teemings might be a better name than Domebo anyhow.

[featherlou]

<snip> Domebo is Domebo, not CRSP's Dungeon. <snip>

As far as WE know. {cue ominous music}

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Are you kidding? I'm waiting for the new BBQ Pit to heat up so I can start being ugly to people I already share a board with. :mrgreen:

And THAT'S why I invited you! Can't wait to see you go to town.

Of course, if you turn on ME, I might have a change of heart. Or I might enjoy your creative vituperation enough to just think of England while it's going on.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Not to spam, but here's my vBulletin-based site:

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/

Not too shabby looking, IMHO.

Clean and neat, yes. But having checked it out, having spent some time on Giraffe's board, and having settled on subsilver as my preferred skin here, I must tell you that I'm coming to dislike the vBulletin look, with or without avatars -- the heavy color bar between posts, for example, seems jarring and clunky. This board, at least in the skin I'm using, seems lighter, fresher, more, well -- spacious somehow.

[Kaspar Hauser]

Also, I run http://www.teemings.org, which was intended as a refugee camp for Dopers should the board go offline thanks to Ed pulling the plug, Creative Loafing being liquidated, or some other disaster. It was intended as a temporary board, until either the SDMB returned, or someone else started a viable replacement. I'm willing to turn over the teemings.org domain name to CRSP; I've got no interest in running yet another splinter board, as long as a replacement like Domebo is online.

I think Teemings might be a better name than Domebo anyhow.

Teemings is a great name IMO, and even better: this might be the opportunity for a merger of domebo & giraffeboard without creating too much fuss about who goes where &c. We could select the sub-forums & ideas from both boards and make a real killer. Then there is still the phpBB vs vB-discussion, but I'll leave that to more knowledgable people.

[Liberal]

Teemings is a good name as far as names go. But quite honestly, it smacks too much of Ed-Cecil. He's the High Holy over the teeming millions. If you don't believe it, just ask him.

[Kaspar Hauser]

Just because he thinks so doesn't mean he's right, you know. And furthermore I think we need to relax a bit on the not-having-anything-to-do-with-the-sdmb-because-Zotti-is-fuckwit-thinking - at least if we actually do want to merge with giraffeboard. Giraffe seems to have a nice board going, the rules are very relaxed, he has good, trusted mods. Domebo has got momentum, great posters and a nice feel to it. If we could get the best elements from these boards together we would have a truly awesome mb. And if the price for that is that we are "tolerated" by the sdmb it doesn't bother me in the least.

[Martini Enfield]

Personally, I'm in favour of either a merger in the form of an entirely separate board combining Domebo and Giraffeboards members etc, or adopting a wait-and-see approach.

The thing is, Giraffe's board appears to be largely kick-started based on his Cult of Personality. I've never dealt with Giraffe on the SDMB in any capacity that I'm aware of, which means he's done nothing wrong or assholish (that I've noticed) and I'm not going to say anything negative about him. Having said that, I've never understood his popularity, but I'm glad that whatever he does has the approval of so many people.

These boards here seem to be based more on an ideal, rather than The Awesomeness of Poster X. BUT, and I stress the but part, this could very easily turn into a Ozymandial forum if we don't start attracting members who aren't from the SDMB somewhere along the line. The fact we've gotten 500 members in 5 days says a lot about this place (I think 500 members is probably the bulk of the "regulars" from The Other Place, FWIW) but once everyone's settled down with whichever boards they've decided to go with, that's when the challenge will start.

The SDMB community is strong, but not strong enough to sustain a parent board and two splinter boards, IMHO. The SDMB isn't going anywhere unless the plug gets pulled, but I certainly don't want a situation like the Western Front in 1916 with us on one side, Giraffe's boards on the other, and the SDMB as a no-mans-land that's constantly having members of both sides charging back and forth across it with (metaphorical) fixed bayonets, supporting machine-gun fire, artillery duels, and biplanes providing air support.

[bookbuster]

Well, emotions aside, there is only ONE way to merge the boards.


Both admins must agree on a date: say, one month from now, to permanently close both domains at the same time. A new board will be live before then, with giraffe and crsp at the helm. Most everyone, (and probably some more) will go to this new board.

This is the only way. But my impression is that Giraffe will not go with this because his vision is to have a board that doesn't replace SDMB and doesn't have its own General Questions.

If it does happen we will all just vote for which forum software to use. I like V-Bulletin but its not a deal-breaker.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I hate the us vs. them mentality (on both boards) that doesn't show any sign of going away. It's silly, because if only one of the boards had existed, everyone would be signed up on that one talking about how great "their" board was, no matter which one it was.

I agree with bookbuster, that the only way I see a merger happening is if both admins agree to compromise and move to a new place and share administration duties.

[featherlou]

I hate the us vs. them mentality (on both boards) that doesn't show any sign of going away. It's silly, because if only one of the boards had existed, everyone would be signed up on that one talking about how great "their" board was, no matter which one it was.

I think that's human nature and basically unavoidable. I also think that a quick merger would be the only way to avoid it, and we may already be past the point.

I agree with bookbuster, that the only way I see a merger happening is if both admins agree to compromise and move to a new place and share administration duties.

Well, we have a deadline for this coming up, as Crispy mentioned in his thread about how the server provider is not happy. Once people start paying for a board, we're not going to want to merge.

[TheFlame]

I think that's human nature and basically unavoidable. I also think that a quick merger would be the only way to avoid it, and we may already be past the point.

We are past that point. Already, two distinct communities have formed with a core of people having become strongly attached to each. If there was going to be a merger, it would have had to have been to here where there were already over 100 members by the time GB got started, and it would have had to have happened pretty much straight away. No deal, said Giraffe. That was that.

Well, we have a deadline for this coming up, as Crispy mentioned in his thread about how the server provider is not happy. Once people start paying for a board, we're not going to want to merge.

Undoubtedly (unless CRSP changes his mind about running Domebo) that deadline will be met. See this thread.


ETA: **NO MERGER** -- "That settles it. We go it alone." - CRSP

[The Cid]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

[CRSP]

Yawn. Man of little consequence trying to stir up shit. You've been told not to start a boardwar by Giraffe. Go back to the Snarkpit.

[Inner Stickler]

What should happen and what do happen are rarely the same. We're happy here.

[Exy]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

You're not exactly a great advertisement; pissy little attempts to start a board war make you and the board you're representing look pretty useless.

[The Cid]

Yawn. Man of little consequence trying to stir up shit. You've been told not to start a boardwar by Giraffe. Go back to the Snarkpit.

Nice. Nobody's trying to start a boardwar, numb nuts.

Oh boo hoo, Exy doesn't like me. That's an endorsement in and of itself.

[Inner Stickler]

Nice. Nobody's trying to start a boardwar, numb nuts.

So that sabre-rattling was what? A twitch?

[What Exit?]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

Both boards will probably do fine. The communities are growing already to good size numbers.

[CRSP]

Giraffe isn't on a VPS. You're trying to stir up shit.

[The Cid]

Giraffe isn't on a VPS. You're trying to stir up shit.

No I'm not. And quit fucking accusing me, ass. Did I misread Giraffe's guidance about a VPS? What did he buy six months of?

[CRSP]

Heh, stop accusing you? Or you'll do what? Type aggressively at me?

He bought six months of space on a webserver, over at Urljet, just as we did for a year, with another host. Do you understand how much VPS hosting costs?

[ivan astikov]

I've had a look at Giraffeboards and it just looks like Straightdope-lite to me.

I appreciate the idea of contents being more important than appearance, but fuck, brighten the place up a bit.

It's a bit too stark and clinical for my liking.

[Giraffe]

Giraffe isn't on a VPS. You're trying to stir up shit.

No I'm not. And quit fucking accusing me, ass. Did I misread Giraffe's guidance about a VPS? What did he buy six months of?

Not a VPS, which is essentially our own standalone server that you can install whatever you want on (although I believe you're still sharing the physical resources of a machine with others). Just a guaranteed amount of storage and bandwidth on a shared server, from a host with a reputation for providing enough resources for vB sites to run. Time will tell what that really translates into in terms of performance

And (asking as a private citizen, not any sort of board mod person) please don't come over here and fight with people about which board is better. That's counter-productive. And kind of rude.

[CRSP]

Cheers, marrer!

[The Cid]

Heh, stop accusing you? Or you'll do what? Type aggressively at me?

He bought six months of space on a webserver, over at Urljet, just as we did for a year, with another host. Do you understand how much VPS hosting costs?

No. Nor do I want to. But if I ever set up a message board I'll be sure to do my homework first. This seems like a heckuvan undertaking to go into with doe eyes. Sorry to learn you take criticism so poorly.

I've had a look at Giraffeboards and it just looks like Straightdope-lite to me.

I appreciate the idea of contents being more important than appearance, but fuck, brighten the place up a bit.

It's a bit too stark and clinical for my liking.

Just like in this place, it's dependent on the "skin." I had similar reservations about here until someone told me how to switch it in the Control Panel.

[featherlou]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

Giraffe and CRSP couldn't have behaved better about a touchy situation. My respect for both of them has increased greatly over this.

[EthelMercaptan]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

Giraffe and CRSP couldn't have behaved better about a touchy situation. My respect for both of them has increased greatly over this.

I agree. There's been some burgeoning nastiness (on both sides) but it sure hasn't been from these two guys.

Hopefully there will be enough overlap of participants to avoid a total "us vs. them" attitude on both boards. I'm not going to let The Cid scare me away from Giraffe's boards and I hope the members here will avoid the same kind of behavior over there.

[The Cid]

And (asking as a private citizen, not any sort of board mod person) please don't come over here and fight with people about which board is better. That's counter-productive. And kind of rude.

I won't in the future but that wasn't my intent this time. If sharing my opinion is rude, then so be it. I am not happy that CRSP has planted his flag in "merger is off the table" territory and I'm not thrilled you would consider an Admin slot for him over there.

[What Exit?]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

Giraffe and CRSP couldn't have behaved better about a touchy situation. My respect for both of them has increased greatly over this.

Both have been great and extremely civil. Giraffe's board looks like it might be good, in the end, more of my friends and familiar posters migrated here than there and I like the changes here. I think each board already has a different community feel to it.

[CRSP]

No. Nor do I want to.

I guess that explains the sorry state of broadcast journalism, these days.

[Giraffe]

Giraffe and CRSP couldn't have behaved better about a touchy situation. My respect for both of them has increased greatly over this.

Don't blame me. I keep emailing him pictures of my balls, but he never takes the bait. Just thanks me politely and offers ointment recommendations.

[Liberal]

The mere fact that one of the two founders is technically superior should sway a lot of folk. While Giraffe bought a VPS for 6 months and stuck with the true MB standard, CRSP "did what he had to do." Why Cap'n made these choices, why he's haphazardly anointing and appointing, and why he's only now looking for links to dedicated server solutions should be warning flags. And while I'm not saying all of you will fit in over there, it's a pretty cool space.

Thanks, Cid, for your ... um ... input.

If I were to base my decision on who has the best server or the True Standard, I might care about your appeal. And while you may be flummoxed by the Cap'n's choices, I understand them. In fact, what is noble about what both Giraffe and CRSP did has nothing to do with servers or standards. What's noble about it is that they took their personal time and labor to build a place where dazed Dopers could go to convalesce and share sorrow and anger.

In this, one is no higher than the other. But Cap'n did something Giraffe did not. He invited me. Personally. That made a difference to me. It's no real biggie in the scheme of things, but all that was needed to tip the scale was a feather.

I find nobility in struggle. And if CRSP is struggling while Giraffe is riding smoothly on auto-pilot, then I reckon he needs me here to help in whatever way I can. So, thanks for coming over to vent, or whatever. But like Giraffe said, you're being pretty rude about it. Maybe you should go back home and send some other ambassador in your place.