The Dollhouse - Friday, Feb. 27th discussion (open spoilers)

[featherlou]

So, I didn't love it, and I didn't hate it. It's not the worst thing we watch, and it's not the best. I'm getting a lot of "meh" out of it, mostly because I'm a straight girl and all the slinky femmes in skimpy outfits aren't doing much for me. I guess we'll leave it on our Friday viewing schedule, mostly because we're too bagged by Friday to do much besides sit on the couch and vegetate, but I don't think we'd make much effort to chase it around the tv schedule.

Anyone else really grooving on it?

[Brewha]

I saw the first and second episode. I felt overwhelmingly - meh.

I really hoped for more. But, I certainly wasn't going to have another early cancellation like Firefly without saying that I was watching it!

And, just to put it on official record - this it the 100th new topic on DoMeBo. FYI.

[Defenistrator]

The first and second episodes didn't impress me either, but the third I thought was interesting enough to keep watching. I certainly don't have anything better to do.

My main problem with it is that I can't stand Eliza Dushku. I don't think she has a wide enough range for this role. All her characters end up being the same.

[featherlou]

<snip>
My main problem with it is that I can't stand Eliza Dushku. I don't think she has a wide enough range for this role. All her characters end up being the same.

I agree with you. I think a very good actress would be shining in this role, and Eliza isn't. Like you say, all her characters are exactly the same.

[Zuul]

Gotta agree with Defenistrator and featherlou about Eliza. She really doesn't have the acting chops to pull off a new, unique identity every episode. She must be an absolutely wonderful individual in person, because it's not her acting that has Joss Whedon worshiping her like he does. It's sort of funny, but even though she's the lead (and a producer) she's probably the weakest actor in the cast.

I'm holding out until we get to see some more of Alpha. I'm hoping that things will turn around for the better at that point, as the meta-plot should be kicked up a notch by then.

[Orual]

I'm not loving it either, but I keep hearing that it'll get good around episode six or so.

I do find myself becoming more interested in the Alpha stuff.

I think the main problem is that the main character isn't really a person, which makes her really difficult to root for. Not to mention the insidious creep-factor of the overall plot.

I am terribly amused that FBI-Helo's Russian mobster-snitch is actually an 'Active' - I thought for sure it would be his next-door neighbor.

[NAF1138]

I am not as "meh" about it as everyone else seems to be. For me this was the first episode where I started to see a bit of a glimpse of what the bigger picture of the story might be. I am willing to hang with it until it get's cancelled.

Also, does anyone else feel like the Echo character was written for Sarah Michelle Gellar? It probably wasn't intentional, but she seems to speak with...not actually Buffy's voice, but Sarah Michelle Gellar's. It's a little weird, it feels like Eliza Dushku is the wrong person on the screen every time there is a long scene featuring Echo.

[Calabasita]

I've watched so far and my reaction has been sort of mixed. I want to love it- I do. I've been a Whedon fan since Buffy staked her first vamp, but this show doesn't feel like him yet- where's the classic one liners? I suppose the format is of a more serious nature and doesn't lend itself as much to the quips- except with the slighty obnoxious scientist whom I am hoping will grow on me.

I agree with everyone about the Eliza assessment, her characters always feel like the same cross between Sexy Spice and But I Can Still Kick Your Ass Barbie (patent pending).

I will stick it out for at least the season if it manages to stay on, I am hopefully optimistic that maybe the show just needs to find its groove and with DVR I can always save it for a rainy day of reruns.

[Exy]

I think the main problem is that the main character isn't really a person, which makes her really difficult to root for. Not to mention the insidious creep-factor of the overall plot.

This! This is where it sort of loses me. If the concept was a little different and she was playing one single tough ass-kicking-cutie type role, I would probably enjoy it just fine. But without one consistent character to bond with, it's hard to feel involved.

And I just don't really believe her when she's in "Echo" mode (I'm not sure what an actor could do to make that believable, but what she's doin' ain't it.) It's worse that all the other roles she's played on the show kind of run together -- like people above said, she just doesn't seem to have the chops to be really convincing. Which is too bad because in her usual type, she's fine, and she's cute and relatively charming, so the fact that she may not be Meryl Streep as an actress doesn't mean she's not usually fun to watch. But a role that depends on her switching personas completely, constantly, just isn't really playing to her strength.

On the other hand, I'm still enjoying the show more than I expected. A Joss Whedon show that doesn't focus around funny, snappy writing is sort of a disappointment to me but at least I'm finding myself basically interested to see what's coming.

[featherlou]

<snip> A Joss Whedon show that doesn't focus around funny, snappy writing is sort of a disappointment to me but at least I'm finding myself basically interested to see what's coming.

I'm finding that disappointing, too. Topher (the brainwasher) seems to be the only one who gets Joss lines.

But, as my husband reminds me, we hated "Firefly" at first, and I would give someone else's firstborn to have it back on the air for a good long run now.

[WhyNot]

I am terribly amused that FBI-Helo's Russian mobster-snitch is actually an 'Active' - I thought for sure it would be his next-door neighbor.

The actress who plays the next door neighbor, my husband assures me (and he's an AICN geekazoid, so I believe him) was originally supposed to be cast as "the fat active", but someone somewhere didn't like the character, and so she was recast as the (presumably still fat?!) neighbor. Gotta love Hollywood beauty standards.

I'm still meh. Thing is, I remember Eliza used to be very, very good. She showed a great range as Faith, and the episode where she played, essentially, SMG playing Buffy was frakin' brilliant. She was even great in Bring It On. (shut up) I know she CAN be better than she is being, and that's got to be the writers' or directors fault.

Oh well. Maybe it's very mediocrity will ensure it doesn't get canceled mid season. Would that just be a piss in the face of Whedon fans?

[Exy]

She was even great in Bring It On. (shut up)

I was just thinking of starting a thread about guilty pleasure movies. Bring It On would be mine. I bet I've seen it a dozen times.

[NAF1138]

I'm still meh. Thing is, I remember Eliza used to be very, very good. She showed a great range as Faith, and the episode where she played, essentially, SMG playing Buffy was frakin' brilliant. She was even great in Bring It On. (shut up) I know she CAN be better than she is being, and that's got to be the writers' or directors fault.

She is good at what she does, but she isn't all that good generally, and to do Echo well you need a really brilliant actress. As written it is an almost impossibly hard role to play, particularly the blank slate inactive active version of Echo. Doing nothing is just about the hardest thing you can do as an actor, so it's no surprise she is having a hard time with it.

Like I said upthread though, last episode made me think that the current state of things is nothing but prologue and that many of the "problems" with the show are intentional and will be more or less temporary. Either that or this is going to turn into Joss's version of The Pretender.

[featherlou]

<snip>
I'm still meh. Thing is, I remember Eliza used to be very, very good. She showed a great range as Faith, and the episode where she played, essentially, SMG playing Buffy was frakin' brilliant. <snip>

Different strokes for different folks - I thought she was one of the weakest cast members on "Buffy" by a large margin (I am still having a hard time getting, "Five by five, Bee" out of my head).

[WhyNot]

She is good at what she does, but she isn't all that good generally, and to do Echo well you need a really brilliant actress. As written it is an almost impossibly hard role to play, particularly the blank slate inactive active version of Echo. Doing nothing is just about the hardest thing you can do as an actor, so it's no surprise she is having a hard time with it.

Two thoughts:

One, I still don't understand what "blank" really means. I just cannot conceive of an alert person with no personality. I don't grok it. So I suppose since I don't grok it, I don't have any expectations of what it should look.

Two, I think it's clear that Echo isn't really blank - whatever the higher-ups think that's supposed to be. Neither is Sierra, for that matter, as her friendly recognition and Echo's silent admonishment not to acknowledge her aptly demonstrated at the end of the last episode.

So I don't judge her for not playing blank for those reasons. I do think she could be doing more to distinguish each of her Active personas, though.

And I REALLY want to know what "Treatment" the Active personas think they're going in for, and why they accept their Handlers without question? Who the heck is he in their Active's narrative? I don't get that, either.

And can we PLEASE have a powerful young woman WITHOUT an older male handler sometime? I know Joss is so not a misogynst, but last night I couldn't help but notice that not only does each (young female) Active have an older male handler, but so does the rock star, and so did Buffy and so, if you count her brother, did River...this is starting to annoy me.

[Exy]

Different strokes for different folks - I thought she was one of the weakest cast members on "Buffy" by a large margin (I am still having a hard time getting, "Five by five, Bee" out of my head).

Seriously? I don't think either of them ruined the show, but to me personally I thought Sarah Michelle Gellar was the weak point in Buffy's casting, and that Faith looked great by comparison.

[NAF1138]

Two thoughts:

One, I still don't understand what "blank" really means. I just cannot conceive of an alert person with no personality. I don't grok it. So I suppose since I don't grok it, I don't have any expectations of what it should look.

Two, I think it's clear that Echo isn't really blank - whatever the higher-ups think that's supposed to be. Neither is Sierra, for that matter, as her friendly recognition and Echo's silent admonishment not to acknowledge her aptly demonstrated at the end of the last episode.

Right, and that's my point (though apperantly not all that well articulated). The above is an impossibly complex task without having to play a brand new fully realized character that retains just a hint of the personality we saw in the opening of episode 1 each week. I can't think of any actor off hand who could really pull that off. I think it's making Dushku seem like a worse actress than she really is because it is so far away from anyone's comfort zone, and she is really only great at playing inside her comfort zone in the first place.

But, the end of that episode, coupled with a couple of other things that indicate that she is having memory bleeds, says to me that the problem with her handling all of that won't be a problem for long. I hope. I am trusting that the show is on a solid path and we just don't know what it is yet and that everything else is intentional.

And can we PLEASE have a powerful young woman WITHOUT an older male handler sometime? I know Joss is so not a misogynst, but last night I couldn't help but notice that not only does each (young female) Active have an older male handler, but so does the rock star, and so did Buffy and so, if you count her brother, did River...this is starting to annoy me.

I hadn't noticed that before, but now that you have pointed it out it's going to bug the heck out of me.

[Claptree]

And I REALLY want to know what "Treatment" the Active personas think they're going in for, and why they accept their Handlers without question? Who the heck is he in their Active's narrative? I don't get that, either.

I'd guess it's rather like a hypnotist's trigger phrases. They always know their handler, and have some permanent connection to them. The trigger phrase takes them out of their current persona and readies them for 'blanking'.

I wasn't impressed with this episode either, but I'll keep watching. The shake of the head at the end indicates to me that the plot will thicken up rather soon.