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Thread: WWII counter factuals

  1. #1
    Oliphaunt
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    Question WWII counter factuals

    How would it have changed things if:

    1) Italy stayed neutral/were always an Ally?
    2) Spain and/or Portugal joined the Axis?

    I believe #1 would have shortened the war, due to less Axis manpower/1 fewer enemy for the Allies to beat.

  2. #2
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    No Italy means no North African Front, but it also means Hitler stays out of Greece. Without that distraction, he might have had the extra bounce he needed to knock Russia out in '41.

    Just ain't no sayin',

  3. #3
    Stegodon
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    Or the reverse case, saddle Hitler with both Spain and Italy. Both would require more horsepower to maintain than they could contribute to the war effort. (Go out of a limb and toss in Argentina for more fun.)

    One counterfactual that is often overlooked is Finland drawing the UK into the Winter War with the Soviets. You could just about imagine all of Western Europe against Moscow. (I still would have bet on Stalin, however.)
    Just assume that everything I say is sarcastic.

  4. #4
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    Russia's hard to beat, no matter how you stack it, isn't it.

    Although, my favourite counter-factual involves Japan, instead of moving against the United States and the British Empire in 1941, attacking Stalin again after he had withdrawn the Siberian army to defend Moscow. (I know, Stalin only withdrew the troops because he knew Japan was going to attack in the other direction, but suppose the Japanese had pulled the old switcheroo.)

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    Member Elendil's Heir's avatar
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    Better for Hitler not to declare war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor (he wasn't obliged to) and, of course, not invade the Soviet Union. But that just wasn't how the Nazis rolled - fortunately for the rest of us.

  6. #6
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    Yeah. I've never understood what Hitler was thinking there. The Japanese could have done him a solid by opening up a second front for the Soviets. Instead, they took advantage of what he had done to make it difficult/impossible for the British, Dutch and French to defend their Asian empires, and he rewarded them by declaring war on the U.S. I just don't get it.

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    Member Elendil's Heir's avatar
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    You'll enjoy this thread - what if WWII were a work of fiction?: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=645923

  8. #8
    Oliphaunt
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    Yeah, honoring the non-aggression pact is the ultimate counter-factual.

  9. #9
    Oliphaunt
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    Indeed I did!! Hilarious! Another plot hole: Senator's son lies about his age, becomes a fighter pilot, later runs a spy agency. Seriously?!

  10. #10
    Stegodon
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    No, it is not the ultimate. I enjoy time-travel fiction. (Time-travel in novels is like John Candy in movies, your mark of excellence.)

    The ultimate would be a novel of a time-traveller who comes to help America win the war. His name is Howard Hughes and his timeline is ours.
    Just assume that everything I say is sarcastic.

  11. #11
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    For some very good WWII counterfactuals, I recommend Len Deighton's SS-GB (about the UK under Nazi occupation a year or so after the invasion) and Robert Harris's Fatherland (about a 1964 U.S.-German summit meeting in Berlin, as an SS criminal investigator looks into the suspicious deaths of several senior Nazi officials). They're very different, but both are fantastic. Elleander Morning by Jerry Yulsman is an interesting take on the kill-Hitler-while-he's-still-a-starving-artist theme. More farfetched than the others but still worth a read.

  12. #12
    Oliphaunt
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    And of course: if you do spinoff about Doctors in the Korea story, it's only fair to do a work with nurses in The Vietnam episode.
    Last edited by Erictelevision; 23 Jul 2015 at 07:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Stegodon
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    Here, read this. It was written in haste by a person I am very close to.
    Just assume that everything I say is sarcastic.

  14. #14
    Member Elendil's Heir's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Paul in Qatar View post
    Here, read this. It was written in haste by a person I am very close to.
    I read a bit, thanks. Intriguing concept. May I suggest more careful proofreading? The spelling of Gen. George C. Marshall's name often drops the second L, and the characters say it is 1935 and later 1934.

    These Final Countdown-related threads may also interest you:

    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=421352
    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=689575

  15. #15
    Stegodon
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    That's what you get when you do NaNoWriMo. It gets much,much worse.
    Just assume that everything I say is sarcastic.

  16. #16
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    Default WWII counter factuals

    Hey guys Ive been on this site for a year now made plenty of posts but my counter always shows 0. Anyone experience this before?

  17. #17
    Oliphaunt
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    Sorry to bump this, but I was reading Salazar's Wikipedia page. He HATED Hitler, did what he could to save Jews. Seems unlikely he's joining the Axis.

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