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Thread: THE OLD MUSIC THREAD OMNIBUS -- NO ROCK AND ROLLERS ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!!!

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Man that was good.
    I'm glad you appreciated it.

    There is some weird stuff going on with NOLA R&B from back in the day. Maybe it's the key of G (e.g., "Hey Little Girl"), or maybe Fess and Dr. John were just double-jointed in the RH, or just some tricks. I can fake it pretty good, but some of those boys down south can really pour it on.

    Here's a little lagniappe:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THK5FVuptp0

    ETA That's the equally great Hank Crawford and Jimmy McGriff (doing piano[!?]). Can't ever miss Hank playing his horn. And IMHO McGriff is one of the all-time greats on Hammond organ — I didn't even know he could play piano, but he's surprisingly good as a piano player.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 04 Aug 2018 at 09:15 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally posted by Jizzelbin View post
    I just thought I'd bump this link to Patricia Petitbon doing the vengeance aria from The Magic Flute.

    At times I try to sing this sotto voce at work, but (i) I can't remember all the words and while a FB and RL friend called Petitbon &cie's performance "precise and passionate" (or something like that), he reminded me that singing a soprano (!) part is probably not reflect well on my masculinity among the contract drivers.


    I don't care about that — it's still badass music.


    Many have tried, but to my ear, it still can't be done on solo piano. Yeah, you can play the notes and everything the orchestra is doing, and try to put feeling into the soprano (lead) partt, but it basically just sucks without vox.

  3. #153
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    Well, it's official.

    The Queen of Soul, as you know, gone away.

    Not to take away from the others from the past few years who went fishing.

    But the Queen was sui generis. Once in a century singer, and one of the singers who was not just an exceptional performer on her main instrument, viz. her voice, but an actual musician who probably knew what she wanted musically and how to execute her performance.

    I can't choose one song, so to be crass I'll just mention Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen."

    Lyrics have to be updated, and bodies have to be planted.

  4. #154
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    Aretha, she was awesome. She was the best.

  5. #155
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    Yeah, well. She did it all. Unfortunately the radio people have been dumbasses about not playing her best stuff. Kind of a disservice to the many, many epic sides she made, with the help of the full studio armies, and sometimes just her and a piano.

    I've been exploring the G-min keyboard toccata of Bach.

    I don't know if this is the best video or performance, but I just grabbed a photocopy of it sometime last week out the door to stuff in my pocket thinking: "Hey, that opening triplet thing would probably sound badass."

    Starting to think Bach's keyboard toccatas are some of the most fun and rewarding of his pieces, at least to semi-play or at least read through or listen to.

    ETA Oh, wow, she's not bad. Musically, I find the performance joyful and light. Her hairstyle is kind of what WareGirl does on the job. I don't know what that's called.

    But look at the tension in her back at the first "spritely" portion of the piece. Well, it looks painful to me, but then again I'm no stranger to pain in the back.

    Bah, she's young. She'll live.

    OTOH, I'm not sure if her posture and histrionics aren't some kind of affectation. Clearly she's heavily influenced by Gould — not just in the clarity of her trills (LH and RH), but in a sort of Renaissance flavor to the way she does the "French overture"-type parts of the toccata.

    However, while I think anyone would say it's a good achievement to master a somewhat-lengthy piece of Bach, she certainly deserves some attention as an artist, beyond the mere technical and intellectual accomplishment.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 19 Aug 2018 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #156
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    All right, we used to play this one seven days a week and twice on Thursday.

    What was the Aretha tune with the raised-nine chords that went, from, for example, like Eb7#9-->Db7-->Bb7

    I'll be shitting myself if I can't remember it, and it's not in my records/CDs.

    That was pretty much the whole tune. Wurlitzer Electric Piano. Late 1960s.

  7. #157
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-T8E4YbS2E

    Proof that not every cracker from Florida (Duane Allman) wasn't above hanging with the Queen.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally posted by Jizzelbin View post
    All right, we used to play this one seven days a week and twice on Thursday.

    What was the Aretha tune with the raised-nine chords that went, from, for example, like Eb7#9-->Db7-->Bb7

    I'll be shitting myself if I can't remember it, and it's not in my records/CDs.

    That was pretty much the whole tune. Wurlitzer Electric Piano. Late 1960s.
    Well I'll be a son of a bitch, I managed to find my copy of "Soul '69," but it isn't on that either.

    And if any of you bastards tell Morgan that my records and CDs aren't organized, I'll cut your nuts off and make you eat them.

    Still, it's a great record.

    ETA, Oh yeah, I never knew that was Junior Mance on piano for quite a few tracks.

    One of my early favorites. A great, great piano player.

    Jazz, but didn't forget how to handle blues and soul (vd. the album Buddy and the Juniors).
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 19 Aug 2018 at 07:39 PM.

  9. #159
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    No shit, looking at the album from Aretha's "Soul '69" that was indeed Junior Mance playing on the eight-bar "Ramblin'" linked to above.

    I think it was in a liner notes or something from one of his albums or one he contributed to where it was mentioned his first big tour was a job with Dinah Washington. IIRC somebody told him, like "man, you come back off that tour and you're going to know blues back and forth."

    As a point of non-interest, I think my second roommate in college remarked in an approving fashion that I had the tape cued up for my alarm clock from one of Aretha's Columbia records singing "Skylark."

    ETAWasn't on purpose, just what I had duped from vinyl onto cassette to have something in there. I'm not much of a packrat, but I'm sure the double album of Aretha on Columbia is still on my shelf. Those get kept alphabetized because I don't bother playing vinyl much now. Especially since my asshole uncle cracked the dustcover on my Pioneer PL-10 with his head. Fucking dick. At least it wasn't the headshell. Shit, I should get a new cartridge+stylus one of these days.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 19 Aug 2018 at 09:10 PM.

  10. #160
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    Just killing time while washing dishes and so forth, watching a few minutes here and there of The Sting (movie).

    I still play a lot of Joplin, when I feel like it, although I still struggle sometimes to remember without cheating and looking at the score.

    That does remind me of what a great contribution "classical" ragtime was to American music.

    ETA as above, what I'm calling the "French Overture" style is using the dotted rhythm, or maybe double-dotted rhythm. The Bach B-min French Overture is the best example, but JSB uses it all over the WTC and elsewhere.

    So, see András Schiff playing the B-min French Overture on youtube. That's what the rhythm is.

    EETA Here is Schiff playing in concert the B-min of Bach. See what I mean? Keyboard technique is not have to be so great. However, taste, style, and perfection in execution is required.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 27 Aug 2018 at 02:42 PM.

  11. #161
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    All right.

    So Billy Preston played a number ot tunes backing Queen of Soul.

    So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjV0w35_BmY here's a way to distinguish what BP is doing on Hammond vs. what Rick Wright is doing on DSOTM and Animals.

    Yeah, so, hear it?

    RW was an amazing Hammond player. but the difference is in using different registrations for the two manuals. RW "got" in spades using the Leslie speaker, like you're supposed to.

    But BP really used *all* the organ.

    IMHO.

    And yes, he played on a number of Aretha's sides.

  12. #162
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    Oh, watching again the Bill Evans before a weeks before he died, I never noticed Marc Johnson on upright bass is playing an orchestra-style double bass, not the 3/4 size everyone else does in jazz.

    Could be the camera or lens.

    Yeah, the link's up there somewhere.

    Just Bill doing his great tune "Nardis" and going nuts solo before the band comes in.

    Hard to believe he was probably about fifty when that was shot.

    Apparently heroin's a hell of a drug.

    I snorted some dimes, but I'm glad I never got into it. Even alcohol, I'm glad I came out of that. Put the zap on your brain.

    ETA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF4dI9LvLDY
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 02 Sep 2018 at 02:59 AM.

  13. #163
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    Red Garland, former boxer turned queer for piano September in the Rain.

    First album I listened to after my first time tripping on acid "solo" (i.e., just on my own, without any company except myself) when I got back to my pad.

    Not bad.

  14. #164
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    This violates my own rule for "rock and roll," but I've been a coworker with this woman named "Angie" (well, Angela, really, but she just goes by Angie).

    Very fun woman, maybe a little older than me — definitely not a romantic thing, just someone you smile at and trade a joke or two with.

    So I finally asked her if she ever gets a lot of tired of being compared to the Stones' tune, "Angie."

    I wasn't sure what answer I'd get — it was a stupid, obvious question, but we were just sitting there being held up by the contractor delinquents.

    Yes, that was the answer.

    She took it in OK stride, probably about as well as I do when people ask me if I been told I look like Nic Cage.

    BUT I just now heard the tune again.

    That is a motherfucker of a tune. I'm guessing that's Nick Hopkins on piano — it's a king-hell piano part that Stu could have played in his sleep, but it's not his bag — and also, the chords.

    Granted, this is just me taking my freshly-washed clothes off my audio mixer, powering it up, and playing along on piano just now.

    Just very refreshing.

    Sort of a three-chord song with some colors added to it.

    I don't remember, but I think it's off Goat's Head Soup — one of those in my LP bookshelf I (obviously) haven't pulled out in a while.

    Anyway, just remarkable songwriting and piano contribution.

    I still haven't listened to the lyrics — to me I just hear "blah blah Angie something something" and wait for Nick to do a nice subtle move on piano, or something from acoustic guitar.

  15. #165
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    Eh. Err. Ergh.

    Something reminded me of what "shit music" is just now — if I can't tell what instruments are being played, by whom, and how it was recorded and mixed, in a very loose sense, I'm not interested.

    I don't care about the vocals -- those have always been processed since the beginning of ever.

    I want to hear separation of each track, even if it's a million tracks. None of this submix to a stem and mash-together crap.

    It may be hard to hear, but in the densest period of 1970s dance music, you can still what's what.

    And, yes, I'm sure you're all very interested, but like anybody else who likes music, the compression is a major problem. But it's been like that since the early 1980s (although compression is not a new thing at all). I still couldn't listen to alternateen "rock" like Nirvana or whatever from the early 1990s even today precisely because of that.

    Even dense instrumental funk music, using synths, electro-mechanical keyboards, processed guitars, and all that, at least you can tell what instruments are being played.

    Even Led Zeppelin in their later years, after beginning as a band of many studio experts, you can still listen to it.

    Present-day "country" music is the only thing going on, musically — I fucking hate most of it, but at least there are actual people playing in the studio and some efforts to mix the tracks competently.

  16. #166
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    There is still some folk and blue grass out there, no one is buying it, but it is still out there. But some would consider those close to country anyway. There is still also some Blues out there, though rarely a new song, usually just another cover of an old cover or variation.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    There is still some folk and blue grass out there, no one is buying it, but it is still out there. But some would consider those close to country anyway. There is still also some Blues out there, though rarely a new song, usually just another cover of an old cover or variation.
    Very true. I would even say there's plenty of rock music engineered very carefully, and performed by younger musicians of extremely high ability. And, yes, you can tell that people are actually performing the music.

    I suppose my little rant was just the usual anti "Top 40" thing — not very original of me. More accurate is that I read the interviews regularly from publications like TapeOp, and rarely bother to follow up with buying or streaming the music (but when I do, it's often interesting in at least a few aspects).

    In other words, I'm just lazy.

    Although, this bartender literally did not believe me that the version of "She Caught The Katy" (a Taj Mahal blues-based staple) that came off her phone was the Blues Brothers version, not the original Taj Mahal version. Her phone just said "Taj Mahal." I think she might have been drunk or something, though.

    I don't know if more blues or instrumental jazz original compositions is all that important to me, just so long as they do it right. AFAIC there's still a lot of room to create something on, like a Wayne Shorter or Herbie composition, just like an 8- or 12- or 16-bar blues isn't going anywhere so long as people can figure out how.

  18. #168
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    I tuned out of top 40 and pop 100 stations decades ago at this point, so my new music is from word of mouth, festivals, the very rare new thing played on classic rock station or the one college station I listen too. I know what you're talking about with everything being over-engineered since lets say MTV started. One of the brilliant exceptions to this was Tracy Chapman, but she was very folk/blues anyway and now a long time ago for her success.

    My groups are now ancient, those that survived the 60s and 70s and now all in their 60s and 70s. Blues musician are almost by definition older yet it seems like. Of the folk musicians that ever had any mainstream success maybe only Arlo is left? I believe Joan Baez is done performing now after some severe health issues and she is 77. duh, Bob Dylan is still playing.

    Meanwhile, I was at a small fest this year and the groups were all 16-24 year olds and half their music was classic rock played as raw as raw could be and the few original pieces I heard were basically blues-rock and not current pop sounding. The Festival was put on by a group of 17-22 year olds.

  19. #169
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    Anyway, I agree w/ ^.

    Anyway, so anyway, I have the day off so into hour four of day off, I put on the Chick Corea/Return to Forever album, Light as a Feather:

    Holy fucking shit.

    The first track, "You're My Everything."

    That just about made my head explode. Yeah, obviously I tried playing along -- the difference between fluidity/fluency from a Chick Corea and some regular person like me is astounding.

    Even when it's hard to play a "wrong" note.

    Yeah, see?

    That's why I'm on this trip of more technical ability (scales in thirds and sixths at the keyboard).

    That's a motherfucker.

    ETA yes, I replayed the track, and am listening to it now. That is indeed a mofo of a side, and, yes, Chick can play. I'm just going to play the album until the last track, the blues "Matrix," and force myself to not try to play along.

    Why do people like music with vocals? I never understand.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 26 Oct 2018 at 01:37 PM.

  20. #170
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    Well, here's some penance.

    That's Roger Williams playing "Autumn Leaves."

    Yes, that Roger Williams.

    And let that be a lesson to all of you! No need for shenanigans! Just don't do it like that, please.

  21. #171
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    Oh.

    In case anyone needed reminding, the first piece of Debussy's "Children's Corner" suite is much more difficult than I remembered.

    It's not impossible to play, by any means, but it IMHO should be played in such a way that there is no time to figure out fingerings ad hoc. In other words, it requires some practice.

    No link. Angela Hewitt is good for Debussy, among recent pianists, but there are plenty of good Debussy interpreters on record. Michelangeli, I guess, is the main one, but I don't recall his tempo on this.

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    Here's an interesting example of pianist Barry Smith using his (supposed) theory of diminished chords to reharmonize (slightly) the old standard "All The Things You Are."

    For once he's not harping on his so-called "diminished sixth" scale pet project, but actually puts it to use on a real tune.

    Me, I've been convinced of learning the octotonic scales all ways from Sunday for quite some time, and been affirmed by how often the "diminished" scale happens in Mozart, as well as using diminished seventh chords more liberally, even just as passing chords. ETA for music people, it's just a symmetric eight-note scale that goes from root-->whole step and continues approaching each note of the diminished seventh chord by a half step. For some reason legit music people just call it an octotonic scale, but everybody else calls it the diminished scale.

    But this is a nice little demonstration — maybe a little pedantic, but it is a video of one of his "master classes," so it's still nice to hear.

    For those who don't know, Barry Harris was part of the "next generation" of bebop jazz pianists who came up in the 1950s, and has quite a number of interesting records under his own name. Very old-school bebop piano.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 21 Nov 2018 at 12:39 PM.

  23. #173
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    Speaking about the Chick Corea and Bill Evans technique.

    Yeah, I think working beyond the advanced Czerny books, it's better for me to (i) think up an improvised line over whatever chords (say, "All The Things You Are," or whatever, just some tune) (ii) instead of just playing the improvised melody in RH, use both hands in thirds apart.

    It's not the "bebop way," where the LH outlines the harmony, but I think it sounds good.

    And, if one isn't with a bass player, you can always switch back

    So, that's how I do from now on.

  24. #174
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    No, I do not change my mind. I rather reaffirm that Debussy's *Children's Corner* is a coherent suite for piano that takes the advantage of the modern piano, and it is a masterpiece that requires not only considerable keyboard technique but also musical maturity qua interpretation.

    I am astounded by how many resources it takes to perform this as a suite.

    Furthermore, I do not think it is reasonable to perform this suite from memory.

    Therefore, I'm glad I bought the G. Henle, after having used photocopies for a very long time — it is very good music and one should at least have a score from which to read, after having studied and learned the movements each.

  25. #175
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    I feel the same way about the first book of Debussy's Préludes — well, the same in that I'm glad I bought the G. Henle as a "reading" score.

    Very few of the individual préludes from the first book have spoken to me personally, but I'd much rather treat them as a set: even though that is against the composer's wishes, perhaps, and similar to Chopin, to have them performed in any kind of order.

    I do have a fantasy that, when I've done the few little (well, for me, they are grand) Beethoven piano sonatas (Op. 26, Op. 27 no. 1) and finally memorize the Op. 126 of Beethoven (yes, I've been playing it for more than twenty years, I just can't remember it all from front to back), I just skip Chopin études (although there are some I like), and only do a few of the Chopin Op. 28 Préludes that I like.

    For me, it's only

    BACH --> [mozart-haydn-beethoven] --> DEBUSSY.

    Everything else is a divertimento.

    Oh, about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCsw...ture=youtu.be: For a long time I try to make a piano work for the Mozart operas work.

    BUT I was gratified to hear after the millionth time hearing Petitbon's studio performance of the second "Queen's" aria, I think I can hear about four places where, if I were a studio engineer, I'd break out the cellophane tape and plug in a few clams.

    Still one of my favorite opera clips, and, of course, one of the great showpieces of all time. I like this not just because of Petitbon's impeccable technique, but also because of the video reminding us, and, I hope, many others with whom I've shared the clip, that classical/legit musicians don't only wear evening dress...they just play, just like the rest of us regular people.

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    I think the best musical idea I've had in a while is swapping out ..... I can't remember what I put out of this stupid disc changer in the car ... well, whatever it was, that old favorite Grant Green's album/CD Feelin' The Spirit.

    It's the same physical CD I've had since I was 18 or 19. Back then I and my guitar friend were listening to the groove between Herbie (on acoustic piano) and Grant Green.

    Now, I just keep the album on the disc-changer in the car during commute and I have more appreciation for how much melody Grant Green gets out of (what sounds to me like) the diminished scale. (All right, music nerds, the regular W-H dim scale).

    Obviously, I have on my shelf everything Green recorded, but, for my money, he never had a better tone nor better lines than on this old album of corny old tunes.

    I'm about to swap a Cannonball album for Green's Grantstand in the car.

    Yeah.

    Instead of Idle Moments, which I've heard so many times it's pathological, I want to hear more good diminished scale lines from Grant, and save up for a nice Epiphone to give my fingers a rest from the keys.

    ETA But I'm still keeping one volume on CD of Lee Dorsey in the changer! Sometimes just got to let it all hang out!
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 01 Dec 2018 at 12:42 AM.

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    Another week begins.

    I've got to swap out Herbie's first Headhunters album for his (and his headhunters) album Thrust.

    I really don't like CD changers, but that's what's built in the car and I'm certainly not going to grab a soldering pencil and screwdriver and change it out.

    From memory, what do I have in there, anyway? Bill's Conversations with Myself, the first disc of Lee Dorsey from a compilation, Green's Feelin the Spirit, used to be Cannonball's Portrait of Cannonball, erm...I can't remember.

    Hmmm. The choice is between Herbie's Thrust and the live album/CD from Japan called Flood.....erm.

    I guess I could put in Herbie's Man-Child as well — not that great an album (it subs guitar for the guitar-esque Clavinet parts Herbie did on the first few).....

    I'd do some good old Jelly Roll or some of Junior Mance's albums, but the tone of the piano doesn't come through on car speakers.

    I got it!!! one of Miles's albums with Herbie and Tony Williams.

    That, plus Grant Stand should round out the mix.

    I hate CD changers: when I want to listen to an album, I don't want to be confused by what disc is in which slot.

    so, swap some, and if I have time, it should be:

    (i) Lee Dorsey
    (ii) Bill+Jim Hall, Intermodulation
    (iii) Miles, Four and More
    (iv) Herbie, Thrust
    (v) Joe Henderson, Tetragon
    (vi) Grant Green, Grant Stand
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 02 Dec 2018 at 12:39 PM.

  28. #178
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    ZOMFG.

    What dipshit put this crap on the playlist at the bar?

    Right now it's some goddamned idiot playing single-note lines on an acoustic guitar. Probably Jerry or one of one of Jerry's "kids." When I first walked in it was some GDead tune.

    This is the kind of music that makes you want to seal yourself in a pine box, pour gasoline on yourself, and set yourself on fire.

    Trust me, I've heard it all before.

    It makes me want to fucking puke.

    And me without my earplugs.

    Fucking shithead assmunching demented witless assholes.

  29. #179
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    Oh man, have you ever heard them live? They like so great man.


    Bullshit. At the Garden, about 30 minutes into the concert and they go into a freeform 20 something minute jazz thing. I guess it was some odd version of Space but what it was, was crap. The only concert I ever walked out of.

    Though in the Dead's defense, part of the problem was the awful acoustics at Madison Square Garden when you're up in the rafters.

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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Oh man, have you ever heard them live? They like so great man.


    Bullshit. At the Garden, about 30 minutes into the concert and they go into a freeform 20 something minute jazz thing. I guess it was some odd version of Space but what it was, was crap. The only concert I ever walked out of.

    Though in the Dead's defense, part of the problem was the awful acoustics at Madison Square Garden when you're up in the rafters.
    Funny.

    Yeah, I've seen them live I think twice — three times actually (? that's like trying to remember every little girlfriend or something — not much fun counting them up) — but I was too high on, you know, the usuals to consider walking out.

    The sound was terrible, though — both outdoor events — although they certainly put a new spin on the term "wall of sound."

    It's not just the reminder of spending time (voluntarily!) with people who had hundreds of cassettes of live shows, but mainly that noodly guitar.

    Makes me want to start chopping off fingers and burning them.

    Anyway, that was a funny comment, so thanks WE?.

    ETA Although, in defense of the GD, I've learned a few things from some of their organ/piano players.

    But that guitar noodling.

    It just cannot be. It cannot ever be listened to.

    Ever.

    Phish >> GD.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 04 Dec 2018 at 11:07 PM.

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    I saw Phish live when they were still on the rock bar circuit. I liked them but though Solar Circus (sp?) was better.

    Speaking of which, years after the Dead concert, I saw Rat Dog live, opening for the Allmans. Rat Dog had Bob Weir and played mostly dead music but sounded better to me.

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    Oddly enough, the closest I came to a Phish concert was when they were playing Madison Square Garden. A few friends were visiting but we didn't have tickets, so we just hung out in the parking garage and did whippets out of balloons and tried to score some weed from the massive tons of neo-hippies who were infesting the garage.

    But Trey, on guitar, at least had some sense of how to restrain that faux-fingerstyle guitar-noodling, and Page (sp?) is a very good rock piano player. Plus, their commitment to keeping some of the cover-band tradition alive, as well as being able to cover some older jazz tunes, is appreciated by me.

    Not that I listen to them, and I think a lot of their shtik and original tunes were pretty silly, but at least I can understand the musicianship.

    I remember Rat Dog, but I can't pull up a mental image of their music in my head. A lot of people liked them, though. Supposedly Bob Weir was a good bassist, but I couldn't really comment.

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    Quote Originally posted by Jizzelbin View post
    too high on, you know, the usuals to consider walking out.
    Is it actually possible to walk out on a GD concert?

    Well, clearly, one person here has done it, and I walked out of the bar mentioned above leaving 3/4 of a pint of beer untouched, after the facial tics started getting irritating.

    But, really....in all cases, I was with some people, BUT more importantly, if you leave, you're still going to be in the dank heart of hippiedom.

    Even the MSG parking garage was a madhouse for the short time I was "entertaining" some friends for a Phish concert.

    Damned it, now I've got an earworm of that tune....was it Robt Hunter who wrote a lot of the lyrics for those old tunes? Well, whoever it was, "friend of the devil is blah blah friend of mine."

    Shit.

    It's getting to be my bedtime, but I think the only anecdote is some Allman Bros. Band.

    No, that's too exciting.

    OK. Idle Moments it is. Yeah, that's about as much stimulation and counteraction to the earworm.

    Oh, BTW, it's from Feelin' The Spirit, "Nobody Knows The Trouble I've Seen," where particularly Green and Herbie do a nice CONCISE version of trading some lines.

    Geez.

    If you want to take a bunch of acid and listen to a jam, do something like that.

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    Quote Originally posted by Jizzelbin View post
    I just skip Chopin études (although there are some I like), and only do a few of the Chopin Op. 28 Préludes that I like.
    I should have amplified that I think Moszkowski's Études (Op 72, I believe), are better than the Chopin études (either set), and that Debussy's études are equally interesting.

    The thing is that any single one of those takes a long time to learn, at least for me.

    And the frustrating thing about the Chopin Préludes is that, again, for me, even the first one in C (from Op. 28), even though it is brief and not too demanding, can't be played while reading the score at the speed that I like. I'm still dithering about the Op. 28/3 (G major) and going back and forth on how to execute some of the LH in a relaxed manner.

    And some of that latter set is just plain technically beastly, and well beyond my ability. Indeed, some of the Chopin préludes are, I would say, beyond the technique of anyone except a bona fide concert pianist at the top of his or her game.

    So, that's how I divide the labor of what "chestnuts" to work at.

    As for Czerny, I try to abstract away from what he abstracted away from Beethoven passage-work, and just work on smooth, fluid scalar work in thirds or sixths.

    The arpeggiated figures, for me, are not useful in improvisation, and so I ignore all that.

    ETA Here's Moszkowski's G-min étude from Op. 72 — for me, there is no question it is a better piece of music than it's counterpart in Chopin's Op. 10 (the hackneyed 'revolutionary' étude), as well as equally demanding technically.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 06 Dec 2018 at 01:57 AM.

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    The opening-credits theme for the BBC miniseries SS-GB is beautifully haunting - I keep listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEm4jCt2Efc

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    Quote Originally posted by Elendil's Heir View post
    The opening-credits theme for the BBC miniseries SS-GB is beautifully haunting - I keep listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEm4jCt2Efc
    Kind of reminds me of the TV series Westworld — I still suspect that if one made a poll of contemporary film composers, especially those which use piano as a leading melodic voice, Debussy's influence would probably be the strongest.

    Even if the composers wouldn't admit it.

    //////////

    Oh, apparently I was confused about Bob Weir — AFAICT, he never touched a bass guitar in his life. Don't know what I can say other than: hey kids, don't do drugs, and stay off the GD.

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    Musically, Bob Weir was nothing special, but a solid rhythm guitar mostly. Jerry was the much better guitar player.

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    Just found out not too long ago (sometime last week?) that Nancy Wilson died.

    I had no idea she was still alive, but she was probably my favorite of the great jazz vocalists — I really know her mainly from her sides with Cannonball (Adderly), as well as one of those Verve "best of" CDs.

    But, she was about one of the handful of favorites among jazz singers who seemed to have total command of her instrument. Not sure how much influence the producers or her sidemen had on her performances, but probably no more than many other "name players."

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    Speaking of old people, I've been like a mental patient for Bill's take on "Blue Monk" (it's just a blues in Bb written by Monk!). Just hitting "repeat" in the car and such.

    I've been struggling for years to get that thing that Billy Taylor did on "I Wish I Knew What it Was To Be Free," but Bill really captures that rhythmic feel for his improvised lines. I think his main statement in that style starts at about three minutes and three seconds in.

    Nobody else I've heard really used that rhythmic pattern, except maybe Les McCann. It's not a "pattern," it's just more a style of organizing the lines, like a kind of voice that is so unique nobody else, I guess, felt like copying it, for fear of sounding too much like someone else.

    Yeah, of course, that doesn't apply to everybody who used Bird and Bud's lines, but this is a really particular rhythmic sound.

    I think I'm going to spend about a week copying Bill's take on this style, just so I can put it in my bag and use it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKG2LzoQmKc

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    Oh, for completeness, Bill does "Blue Monk" in F. IIRC every recording I've heard of Monk doing it is in Bb.

    It's basically the same key, at least for blues, if you look at it kind of sideways.

    And the "trick" is to start the attack (truly, the term can be applied in a few different ways) on the very first note of each improvised line.

    The content of each line is really just .... I think some people call it .... I can't remember, but just using chromatic approach notes from below and above whatever the "target" note is.

    So, that's stuff I already knew, but it's just a case of practicing that very particular style.

    A lot of John Lewis influence I hear in Bill's performance as well.

    And Bill has some neat little flourishes.

    I think I might actually grab a pencil and some staff paper and write it out (probably not all three voices — the walking bass (and the spots where he does a pseudo-stride LH bass) doesn't need writing down, but the introductory material at the beginning has some nice advanced voicings), and I'll probably post it here as a jpeg link.

    And, no, transcriptions of solos are in a very grey area of copyright law — to my understanding, it's really the melody of a tune that is copyrighted. Not the chords, certainly.

    Anyway, I haven't broken out the staff paper yet, so that's not a concern.

    EETA, no I remember trying to write it all out about ten years, but I'm going to do my refined/lazy technique of transcribing and divide each line played into numbered segments.

    After all, I'm not going to play it note-for-note, and I've learned from memorizing Bach that it can sometimes be a bit more manageable and make more sense to write each phrase out.

    If needed for some reason, you can always just "stitch" the lines together and make a nice, neat copy.

    Just my method now.

    //////

    ETA Oh, and in case anyone needs a quick intro to Nancy Wilson, "her" tune "Never Will I Marry" is a stone classic. I just know it from Cannonball (I think he did it in Ab): kind of a tricky tune for a tin-pan-alley standard, and I can't remember all of it, but it's just a classic.

    So....Nancy Wilson, Anita O'Day, Annie Ross, Sarah Vaughan. I think those are "my" chick singers who went nationwide and changed music history. Of course there are many more, but those are my girls.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 17 Dec 2018 at 12:12 AM.

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    OH, I did spin in the car this morning and afternoon, the album by Grant Green called IIRC "Grant's First Stand*.

    It's in organ trio, with Baby Face Wilette on Hammond organ and Ben Dixon (who else!) on drums.

    I haven't heard that in years, but Baby Face's odd use of the "vibrato" setting on the Hammond didn't irritate me that much.

    FYI. the traditional is to use the "chorus" effect on the Hammond, as Jimmy Smith and everybody else did, so it sounds a little odd, but BFW did have some tasty lines and his LH bass+pedals was especially noteworthy.

    Ben Dixon held the groove.

    But my surprise was that Green was pretty much fully-formed at...I guess he was about thirty when this, his first album, was recorded.

    Just a great ability to create lines that could almost be compositions in themselves.

    Extremely tuneful, and the tone of his guitar and its recording never sounded better. As good, but never better.

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxh9XIiVUAE

    Well, that sort of officially violates "No Rock and Rollers Allowed," but I'm astounded at The Killer's balls-out bravado as late as 1964 at "The Star Club."

    I've known all the Sun Records releases since forever, but this is the one that says to me, "Hey! Fuck you! I'm going to play some fucking piano and then eat your wife's pussy, and then play some more! Next time bring your sister-wife!"

    Jerry Lee Lewis was a crude, crude man, but he could play, sing, and more important, he could perform.

    He was the white James Brown.

    ETA Still is.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 30 Dec 2018 at 09:01 PM.

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    Eh.

    I was told by phone last week that my middle nephew watched some of the televised Van Cliburn piano competition with his grandmother (i.e., my mom).

    AND that this nephew was astounded by the feats.

    So, I guess the next time I see them I'm supposed to do something really "amazing" on piano.

    I was more working on musical stuff like fugues, but I can still remember most of [url=http://ww
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 12 Jan 2019 at 11:26 PM.

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    Oh. That was supposed to be link to the old CPE Bach Solfeggietto.

    And then I think I said something about the (easy) E minor fugue from the WTCI.

    And then a bunch of other stuff.

    I still stand by my statement that the presto agitato from Beethoven's Op. 27 no. 2 ("Moonlight") is easier than the Op. 27 no. 1, but that's probably just because of way old muscle memory.

    And then I said some other stuff. I remember, but I refuse to retype.

    Anyway, the point was that little kids of about the age of seven or so can be easily impressed by some flashy piano playing, even if it's not too difficult in the context of the whole repertoire, and that seems to be the role I am meant to "play," for now, so at least I can keep a post-it note with the chord changes to some of these tunes in my pocket if needed and do that.

    IF it were me, I'd just do a very quick performance of the three-part invention in C, then note how it's all scales, then start introducing the two-part invention in C as an ear-training exercise.

    But, I don't think the kids are too impressed by Bach, even though I find his music very demanding on all levels.

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    Oh, and really the only reason I ever learned the little CPE Bach thing was Bud's "Bud on Bach" tune. Yeah, his improvisation isn't exactly on his best on this one, but I like the mix-and-match.

    Do the stupid CPE Bach thing, then just play for a bit.

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    Quote Originally posted by Jizzelbin View post
    I've been struggling for years to get that thing that Billy Taylor did on "I Wish I Knew What it Was To Be Free," but Bill really captures that rhythmic feel for his improvised lines. I think his main statement in that style starts at about three minutes and three seconds in.
    \

    You know, I "discovered" today that this particular style of phrasing seems to have been a favorite of Cannonball. I noticed it today while listening to the fake-"Freddie Freeloader"-style blues off...I think the album/CD is A Portrait of Cannonball.

    That wouldn't surprise me a bit if Bill didn't absorb the phrasing style (namely, it's a "front-loaded" improvised line, IOW, attack hard on the first note, no matter where the line begins in the bar, and use heavy chromatic "encircling" around the chord/melody tones). They two certainly played together enough.

    So, that was an interesting observation I found today — I'm still not very good at copying that phrasing for my own lines, but it's still nice to observe.

    Alas, I don't think I'm ever going to remember all the separate parts to "Waltz for Debby," speaking of Bill+Cannonball. (Bill wrote the tune, but Cannonball also recorded it). It's not that it's hard changes, just there are some subtle variations in each of the "A" sections.

    I guess I should be grateful enough that I can condense pretty much any legit/classical or jazz tune or whatever onto a single Post-It Note to help me remember.

    It's not as bad a crutch as needing to see a leadsheet or actual score, but it's still a crutch.

    Like, uh, that dialogue from Plato, something like "all writing is writing in water." (Natch, Socrates said it, IIRC, what with Plato being the scribe and all).

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