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Thread: THE OLD MUSIC THREAD OMNIBUS -- NO ROCK AND ROLLERS ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!!!

  1. #201
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    Mister.......TAM....BOURINE......MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

    Yeah, I didn't think Shatner could out-Shatner himself, but he did it. I wonder about what he was thinking, except maybe earning his paunch the honest way, through lots of fattening...drugs or something. What an odd man.

    NO! I refuse to listen to the Nimoy "Ballad of Bilbo Baggins" again, although that was a worthy retort. Perhaps this thread will scare some kids straight and keep them off the living nightmare of horrid novelty recordings.

    On the Good hand, some van drivers at work at 0 dark thirty were rapping on the old tune "Thunderbird" (you know, "What's the price? Sixty twice!" (Although I prefer "cut it twice," but it's just an old tune with made-up words).

    My mobile connection is running slow, but I must put in a plug for James Booker's "Wine Spo-de-Odee" from the Maple Leaf recording in NOLA. Solo piano, solo singing. Yeah, he doesn't say "Wine motherfucker drinkin' wine!" which I guess was the original hobo/ghetto version and the one I like to sing, but that performance opened my ears to how much crazy can be combined with real music. In G IIRC.

  2. #202
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    Oh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFjTz68F-P4]Here 'tis, to borrow a phrase from IIRC a Junior Mance piano album

    I forgot Booker's version begins with a little bit of Allen Toussaint's tune "Life." I don't think he had a hit with that one as a songwriter or producer (I think Dr. John covered it on one of his Toussaint-produced albums, but I don't remember).

    I do recall the tune.....I learned it in D, and it's kind of a nice finger-stretching exercise for piano in LH. Kind of rotates with the wrist up from the octave to the major tenth.

    But "Wine Spo-de-O-dee" — that was the one that I turned my friends onto around age 19-20 or so and turned everyone's heads.

  3. #203
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    OK, fine. Well allow me to retort: https://youtu.be/Ls42F23V6rQ

    No. That's not good. I can listen to Nimoy's baritone all day before that one. Plus, I fucking hate the Beatles.

    OK, just the classic. It's a good tune about a man they call rocket. A classic in the horrid novelty genre, I'd say. For old time's sake.

    But the James Booker "Wine Spo-de-odee" is really good — I think music lovers will appreciate how Booker seamlessly uses some musicianship/tricks and has mastered the "art" of flowing from one tune to the next.

    Anyway, that's when I was eighteen or nineteen or so I learned how to "mix" tunes, sort of like a DJ, but while actually playing in real-time. Seminal.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 31 Jan 2019 at 07:03 AM.

  4. #204
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    All right, I have to put a plug in for Dr. John's classic roots-R&B album Gumbo.

    A few things I noticed after not having heard this in a while (incidentally, this album is where I learned a lot of these tunes on piano, and prompted me to learn from the original Huey Smith albums, and Eddie Bo, and everybody).

    (i) The isolated piano segments at the beginning and especially the end of some of the tunes are a treasure trove. If I were smarter back then I would have just made a loop of those on my open-reel 1/4" tape.

    (ii) Even though I still only play "Stagolee" the way the Doctor does on piano (you know, just I like to pay tribute and I don't really have much reason to play the tune except for laughs), I never really heard his version of the lyrics.

    I find it interesting that StaggerLee is pretty much the hero in Mac's lyrics. Just one of those tunes where you just make some words up that sort of rhyme and something you heard in the back of the mind, at least for me.

    Contrast that with like Professor's version which IIRC is a lot more like the way I've heard it more often, like Billy Lyon talking about his sickly wife and children.

    So, I guess after almost twenty-five years of hearing and studying this album in particular, I finally got around to noticing the lyrics in this version.

    And that is no shit — I distinctly remember actually writing out in pencil and staff paper the piano part to that tune and some of the others. Probably still around here someplace.

    I guess people have different priorities with the music — it's kind of nice to have the lyrics with the music too.

    Not too nice, but it's a little bit extra.

    ETA

    (a) No, I don't have a link. Just go buy the CD. It's on the Atlantic/Atco label or that whole thing. It's probably twelve dollars. Twenty-five years, almost exactly, and the redbook original CD still spins perfectly.

    (b) Some new refreshers I was glad to hear. I still play these myself just on piano, but "Blow, Wind Blow" (cover of the Fats Domino hit) is outstanding, and there are a few subtle arrangement/additions on piano I never noticed before. Nothing new I can recall about "Somebody Changed the Locks," but

    aw, shit, just the whole album is great. As you know, or should know, or will know. Start to finish feel-good music. Terrific horns, like somebody legend like Red Tyler on tenor or somebody heavy, exceptional (truly, I don't know if it was John Boudreaux, but it was somebody heavy) drums, and the bassist is great, probably DI into tape through the console. Impeccable sound. Mixed terrifically. Whatsisface, Ronny Barron? Anyway, some kid on Hammond organ backing the Doctor's piano up. I believe it's probably Mac playing the guitar solo on "Let the Good Times Roll," which isn't half bad.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 31 Jan 2019 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #205
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    Die Krähe sung by an apparently well-known tenor named Hans Hotter.

    Never heard of him, but apparently he was a big deal in Wagner opera, but to my ear doesn't sound like a Heldentenor.

    I do wish I had had the means to buy a score of the Winterreise of Schubert, instead of using photocopies, back when I did a little one-off piano performance of maybe eight or ten of the songs in in the cycle. Now, it doesn't matter, but it would have been nice to have a little record of my pencil markings. Obviously, this particular piece doesn't need the score, since it can be played by ear, at least close enough.

    This performance is quite a bit slower than others I've heard.

    But, for all I know about singing (which is nothing), that guy has some power behind the voice.

    And, instead of older recordings of people like Melchior, the sound quality is listenable. IMHO.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 09 Feb 2019 at 02:47 PM.

  6. #206
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    Here's an extraordinary instrumental-only version of the old "classic" tune "Fly Like An Eagle."

    Yeah, I know.

    But it's a very good look at how the Hammond organ is used in rock music.

    As much as I love Rick Wright's playing for that guy Pink Floyd, here it's easy to hear how the organist is using the two manuals (one has the "percussion" effect applied, the other doesn't) as well as the "expression" pedal and changing the speed of the Leslie speaker/different depths of the "chorus" effect.

    I hate this song, but it's a great example of just hearing how the backing tracks are played — IOW, we keyboard players aren't just sitting on our fat asses hiding behind a stack of keyboards.

    No comment on the synth "contribution" towards the end.

  7. #207
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    I don't have a link, but the documentary Piano Players Rarely Play Together was a nice reminiscence, particularly when there are video clips of Allen Toussaint RIP is tracking some of his famous tunes like "What Is Success?" and so on, both producing in the iso booths all the background vocals and instruments, and performing on vocals and piano at the same time.

    Son of a bitch.

    I'm pretty sure I'm fixing to settle down in NOLA when my ship comes in: it's the only kind of music I can play (all kinds!), and it's the only place I can see where there's pianists better than me, plus everything else.

  8. #208
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    This is one of the most haunting, surprising things I've seen recently. A piano transcription by Bach of an oboe concerto by some guy named Marcello.

    And it's a nice looking woman playing it, too.

    WOMAN! WOMAN! Grrr!!!!!!!

    They get all the piano glory.

    Well, them and Liberace, I guess.

  9. #209
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    OK, Bach was clearly on some kind of drugs imported from the new world. Probably dessicated sloth scat mixed with coca leaves or something.

    When he wrote the Well-Tempered Clavier, Book 2, A Minor prelude.

    Not only is it very long, it's extremely chromatic, and is a very strange thing to have included.

    I don't have a link, but Angela Hewitt, true to her nature, recorded it with the repeat, so in case the oddity didn't sink in at first, you can have a second chance at it.

    The fugue is also a little bit punker-rocker, but more straightforward.

    The pair is considered one of the easier ones from both books (aka, "the 48"), but that's really just that it can be sight-read without a huge amount of difficulty. There's lots of room for interpretation and nuance in both.

    Very different from the Book I A minor set (there, too, the prelude has sort of a fucked-up little motif, but it's short and not too odd, but the fugue is extremely long and for that reason considered one of the more challenging fugues from the 48).

  10. #210
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    That was a shock.

    Again, no link, but Ashkenazy on the Decca label performing the last movement of Mozart's "Jeunehomme" piano concerto (K. 271) — yes, I know apparently it's now considered the "Jenamy" or something concerto, because of some scholarship, but I don't care about that.

    I play this from time to time (without orchestra!) and I was shocked at how fast Ashkenazy took the tempo — I do it fast, too, but sight-reading most of it slows me down.

    I find it invigorating. Although I don't much care for the first two movements — not enough piano, although I do have the Busoni arrangement of the little slow middle movement.

    I might have said here before, but the voicings in thirds and sixths around sequences of notes is, to me, a direct antecedent to some pianist tricks middle-period Beethoven did in his sonatas, like the Op. 27 no. 2 and elsewhere.

    Anyway, it's fun.

    I haven't read the liner notes, so I don't know if Ashkenazy was conducting while performing on piano or not, but given his stature, I assume Ashkenazy made most of the creative decisions.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 18 Mar 2019 at 12:16 AM.

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    /***ETA
    Similarly, I just heard a recording of Richter playing the final Rondo from Beethoven's Op. 26, which is one I actually do play (although some of the variations in the first movement are tricky and I like the second movement much quicker and more legato than the way I can do it now — and while I can play the funeral march, it's not somthing I feel like playing pretty much just for fun) and have designs to memorize more perfectly.

    He recorded this sonata a number of times, but I was shocked at how fast he took it.

    I was happy with András Schiff's performance notes during his lecture series (availble on Youtube or through the BBC/The Guardian UK website) of the Beethoven Sonatas — namely, that the final movement is a continuation of the preceding movement (the famous "funeral march") and can be interpreted as a conversational stroll back from the funeral.

    But Richter just plays it breathtakingly fast — almost like a kid doing the isolated movement as part of a recital/party piece.

    I aim for practice speed at about 20% over final speed, after learning the notes, but there is something satisfying about Richter's idea....after all, the main Rondo part recurs quite often verbatim and, while the movement is so nice that one doesn't want it to be over, it can be tedious as a performer and listener to hew to the lower extreme.
    */

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    I believe this might be the same recording as the one I was listening to.

    It's Bud [Powell] doing that tune "Indiana" (it's the one "Donna Lee" is based off, and a lot of Hammond organ players do it).

    Anyway, my speed is poor, so if it is the same one, towards the end Bud and the drummer trade bars and Bud does some stuff I'd have never thought was ever in his bag: long, graceful lines, but together with his trademark sharp attack and a new sequencing/pattern-based/semi-"outside" was what it was.

    Well, it made me sit right back down and tuck in that neck, Mister, I'll tell you what.

    /****Oh, just today I did, speaking of above, read through Busoni's arrangement of the middle movement of Mozart's Eb maj piano concerto. It's dreadful as an arrangement played on a modern piano.

    And the first movement is, while agreeable, also not very much piano, from the orchestral parts: IOW, most of the time you just play all the orchestral parts and the piano is just waiting to play its very nice solo sections. Very catchy tune, though. I still like the final movement better, though: with some careful supplements from the orchestra score, it's really all solo piano.

    ***/
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 27 Mar 2019 at 01:33 AM.

  13. #213
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    Speaking of concertos, this is one of those Leonard Bernstein episodes (about fourteen minutes long) explaining stuff and then doing a performance.

    This time it features Glenn Gould at the piano and Bernstein conducting a small orchestra doing the first movement of the D minor keyboard concerto of Bach.

    Not only is it interesting to see Gould's unusual technique up close, but one can see that the two interpreters would have, indeed, not been very much on good terms personally. If I were a conductor, I'd probably find the pianist conducting himself with his LH annoying. But they and Lennie managed to accompany all of the orchestral "hits" at the right time, so I find it a good performance.

    I'd never seen any video of Bernstein conducting. He was indeed flamboyant in his physical gestures, but a pretty eloquent speaker.

  14. #214
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    I submit for your approval, from Debussy's first volume of his Préludes:

    (a) "Minstrels" (XII). This is one I'm having an eye on to playing through. It's kind of a looking-glass mirror of the famous "Golliwog's Cake-walk" from Debussy's suite, Children's Corner, but much more free with tempo and traditional chords — sort of a pastiche of hurdy-gurdy music, perhaps.

    (b) "La Sérénade interrompue" (IX). Extremely interesting piece with, to my ear, some nods to old-fashioned guitar-esque pieces, à la Scarlatti in his K. 1 or K. 141. Tricky, but not unplayable.

    (c) "Ce qu'a vu le lent d'ouest" (VII). "What the West Wind Saw." Some very impressive arpeggios throughout. Very much a traditional (for 20th C music) piece in a kind of expressionist style. This is quite possibly playable, but it's kind of long and would take some doing, to be sure.

    In fact, many of the pieces from the Préludes Bk. 1 are, to me, of a piece with so-called expressionism in music — think, say, early Schoenberg or perhaps Berg.

    No, I don't have any Youtube links. In fact, even at home or on various hard drives I only have one or two recordings of these. Michelangeli's versions are captivating, but I haven't studied them, although they are AFAIK on youtube, at least in concert versions. Also Angela Hewitt, but I don't think she's on Youtube, and I can't find my copies of her renditions right now.

    One thing is for sure — these hardly, for the most part, "leap out of the page" when sight-reading them. It's essential for me to hear the records, in the same way I have trouble reading some of the slower Bach dance movements without hearing some examples, even though the notes are typically crystal clear on paper.

    ///////////////

    Also, about the Bach d-minor Concerto in its keyboard version.

    Yeah, I was playing through the first movement again this morning before work.

    It's such a texturally interesting piece for the keyboard to play — Bach isn't content to just have two voices at the octave, of course. And his debt/hommage to Scarlatti fils or at least the "Spanish" guitar-esque school is clear.

    I think that will be a worthy piece to get closer to playing adequately.

    Then again, there's quite a bit of Bach that I feel the same way about.

    But he continually surprises one with how many different textures in his keyboard writing he is able to work with — I think a more modest goal is to play the Suites/Partitas and other pieces from Bach one chooses, but with an eye to beginning to think as Bach does, and at least to be able to modulate keys and create harmonically appropriate (and generally musical) accompaniments ex tempore.

    They say that the Three-Part Inventions (aka Sinfonias) were primarily compositional exercises, but I don't find that to be the case for most of them. The Two-Parts, sure. But I typically play six or so of the Sinfonias daily (not perfectly, but I get through most of them OK), and for me they resound as little gems of miniatures. Similar to Chopin's Préludes (some of them).

    IMHO Bach's real compositional/improvisational "student works" are in the WTC, and in pieces like the D-minor concerto, and the suites/partitas. Which are not all easy, but I find, say, the E minor Partita (no, I can't do the final Gigue at all — it's ridiculously complicated, but I can play most of the early movements up through the "Air" OK) to have a sort of prototypical structure of "the Bach touch." Or the Preludes from the A major and A minor English Suites, as well as both Bourées from the same two Engl. Suites — classic lessons in modulation and harmony, that also happen to be very pleasing music.

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    HERE is a pretty entertaining, lighthearted interview between the Candian pianist Oscar Peterson and Dick Cavett, with Oscar at the keyboard and demonstrating some little tricks of a few styles.

    I'd recommend having a look if you want to see a friendly, funny conversation with some jokes, but also some brief demonstrations of such-and-such a little style at the keyboard.

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    Well, I don't know if this fits with your all sensibilities, but some reefer-smoker put Maggotbrain up on his phone at the bar after work.

    I knew it was Eddie Hazel doing "Maggotbrain," and it was nice to hear the extensive reverb used by the engineers, which I'd never noticed before — I'd say Eddie Hazel used reverb (or had it used on him!) the way others used distortion and feedback.

    Even the bartender didn't really believe my story about Geo. Clinton saying to Hazel, "Play like your mama just died!" Probably a rock legend story, but everyone's heard that one.

    Until some older guy at the end of the bar came up to the bartender and asked what tune it was. Caroline had to walk over and check, but, goddamned, people love this especially on good sound.

    Hendricks can suck Hazel's dick.

    OTOH, Hendricks got to play with Larry Young, but Hazel got Bernie Worrell.

  17. #217
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    Well, I'm pretty sure this doesn't count as non-rock-and-roll, but there's the whole tradition of 20th C legit composers and musicians using or mastering electronic devices. The ondes martenot, the Theramin, and later synthesizers, especially after that new-fangled transistor with no vacuum tubes gained (heh) ground — very heavily pursued by serious musicians and composers of art music.

    I guess I'll link to this "news" story — there's a more comprehensive account linked to by pitchfork, but it includes an autoplay youtube TV news segment which sucks.

    Oh, the whole thing is that an EET (electrical technician) was working on an older Buchla synth, and inadvertently was dosed with LSD by contact with one or some of the components. Buchla and his instruments had a long history, it seems, going back to Owsley and everything in the Bay area.

    Not much to it, just kind of a funny story that seems to be corroborated.

    And, no, I totally was not thinking of dosing large amounts of people. Mainly because it's expensive, and difficult to synthesize, from what I hear.

    ETA Oh, sorry about misspelling Hendrix's name above.

    EETA The person handling the initial stages of the instrument's restoration was probably not an EET, just a regular guy. From what I see. Don't know for sure.

    EEETA That's "Theremin," spelled correctly. At least I got ondes martenot correct on the first try.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 24 May 2019 at 02:37 PM.

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    Well, I'm not sure about this bold claim, but I think that the WTC2 in the first brace of couplets (the C major and the C minor preludes and fugues) puts what Bach wrote for the WTC1 to shame.

    No, I don't know how, and I've read the Cm at the keyboard before: the C major was a revelation, although I've read it before at the keyboard. It's not that these are tricky pieces: rather, I think they are better music than their analogs in the WTC1. And, yes, I know about the BWV 870a, which is cute and about whose correspondence to the C maj. prelude I shan't say any more. I believe it's a worthwhile birds-eye view of Bach's idea for the prelude.

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    Oh, well, I'd bet some of you heard that Mac Rebennack a la Dr. John died.

    TBH, I'd have put him on one of those perverse "Celebrity Death Watches" for a while, except I'm not that sick a bastard.

    I think he's known to the average public as more of a swamp-rock guy who had some hits in the 1970s in the popular vein, and reappeared in the early nineties as part of a revival of some of the classic singer+big band records.

    To me I know him more as a conduit through which a lot of instrumental styles on piano flowed, so he was kind of a teacher of a bunch of different genres in piano as well as a master piano player.

    I think this is the only celebrity death I ever felt a bit sad about hearing, ever, just because I copied so many things off his records.

    With Allen Toussaint going, last year, I believe, I don't think there are any people left from that generation that bridged NOLA R&B/rock-and-roll of the 1950s with today's times. Both formidable pianists, and more than adequate vocalists.

    Yeah, sure, deep thoughts.

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    I saw him live twice, one in New Orleans and once playing in Ringo's All Star Band, right here in Central Jersey.

    I like him but I mostly know him for his few hits in the 70s like Iko, Iko and Right Place Wrong Time.


    As to the NOLA R&B bridge, what about Aaron Neville & brothers?
    Last edited by What Exit?; 07 Jun 2019 at 11:22 AM.

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    Yeah, that's a good call: I'm not sure of their dates, but I think of Art Neville (organ player) and the Funky Meters as being a little bit generationally-removed from the people like Toussaint and Rebennack who came up in the 1950s (as teenagers) doing studio work, primarily influenced by Professor Longhair on piano.

    Maybe like half-a-generation younger.

    No doubt, Mac Rebennack's peak was in the 1970s: not only was he playing the spoons on Exile From Main Street and so many other sessions, like Maria Muldaur and Rickie Lee Jones's big records, but he had the NOLA-funk-pop, as well as the album Dr. John's Gumbo (disc three, track three is the one I can remember from my current CD changer in the car if I want to get psyched up). Some more pop-oriented albums, with good piano and tunes with interesting chord changes.

    Then, of course, the early 1980s, with that set of masterful solo piano+vox records, "Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack" and "The Brightest Smile In Town."

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    Whoops. that was my ignorance.

    Art Neville was for sure around in the 1950s, and is in fact Mac's elder in age.

    Sorry about that, and thanks to WE? for pointing that out.

    Clearly it wasn't something I'd considered.

    Well, maybe there's such a thing as "musical generations," as contrasted to genealogical ones. I don't know what that would look like for modern times: "before 'Fess" or "after Fats."

    Something like that.

    Anyway, one thing that should be mentioned is Mac's contributions to edumacation, as he versified it in one of his songs. I still have the audio cassettes from when I was fifteen or sixteen from Homespun records, of Dr. John chatting with Homespun's owner Happy Traum as he broke down some of his style.

    I haven't listened to the tapes in decades, but there isn't a single thing I do in a minor key in the NOLA pop/trad style which isn't informed by having learned it off those tapes. Chord voicings, all those variations on different turnarounds, how to play things in every key.

    An improvisational toolkit, it was, for me. And still is. I don't copy note-for-note some of his improvised boogies or solos or eight-bar blues, but I certainly have in the way past, and his approach is still the way I play things that are in that bag.

    ETA And, yes, I know he was in a down-period in his life, probably, when he did the Happy Traum cassette tape sessions, and it may have not been that much money at all for him, The Night Tripper, to have been doing some cassette tapes for a small company.

    But, yeah, between him and a few others when I was getting OK at copying Clapton and Page on guitar, he helped me not forget about the piano, which, after all, besides all the legit music, really started for me at a much younger age with the ragtimes and the strides and all that.

    I mean, you can never get away from that trad-jazz influence, and Mac had a way of bringing it into the modern age, with no compromises.

    No, he wasn't playing Jelly Roll Morton solos off the record, but it's the same thing, what he did. Just kept moving.

    "Somebody Changed the Locks" indeed.
    Last edited by Jizzelbin; 07 Jun 2019 at 03:57 PM.

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    Hey, Herbie's coming to play at one of the local zoo concerts on....the bartender told me....Aug. 17th?

    Unfortunately the tickets are pretty expensive, and I'm no longer a member of the zoo, and my girl is even more broke in cash than I am.

    I liked seeing him play his Fazioli grand at the OR Symphony, doing...."Rhapsody in Blue" and some other stuff, but he didn't really bring the jazz/improv so much for that job.

    I guess I can spend eighty or ninety dollars for two tickets, but N____ie is probably not going to be having me treat her to a concert.

    Which is her prerogative, and I understand why, but IMHO that would be a pretty cool way to spend a summer evening, sitting on the grass (along with a bazillion other people), and probably get a chance to ram my tongue down her throat.

    Which is nice.

    Well, probably won't happen, but it's a good idea.

    I can still go to the zoo with her if we can get our schedules lined up — that's a fun date, IMHO.

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