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Thread: Pizza is a Vegetable. WTF?

  1. #1
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    Default Pizza is a Vegetable. WTF?

    You read that correctly, in America, pizza is classified as a vegetable because it has a smear of tomato paste across the top of it.

    It counts as one of your five-a-day according to Congress who have turned down a challenge to the existing rule by the USDA who were trying to at least make the rule make sense.

    I bet with enough money you could reclassify chicken as fish.

    More on the story here.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  2. #2
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Tomato paste is concentrated tomatoes, so I'd be willing to concede that counts as a serving of vegetables. However, it's pizza sauce on pizza. It's watered down and has added sugar.

    The changes are also keeping whole grains out and making french fries count towards vegetable servings. This kind of thing has been going on for a long time, though.

    I refer you to, "ketchup as a vegetable."
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

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    Happy New Year! Trojan Man's avatar
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    A friend of mine last night was telling me America deems tomatoes as vegetables, as opposed to fruit, which they actually are. True?

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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by spitz View post
    A friend of mine last night was telling me America deems tomatoes as vegetables, as opposed to fruit, which they actually are. True?
    Fruit and vegetable do not truly have scientific meanings; it is more culinary. A tomato is technically a fruit but then so are peppers. In general in the USA both are sold as veggies.

    As to pizza as a veggie or even a fruit; this is weak but not as bad as when ketchup was briefly a veggie in the 80s.

    I would like to add based on a remark in the op that the capybara was once classified as a fish by the RCC.
    Last edited by What Exit?; 18 Nov 2011 at 04:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    Biogically they're a fruit, in the world of groceries they're vegetables. There's no reason why something can't belong in two categories depending on context.

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    Happy New Year! Trojan Man's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Rube E. Tewesday View post
    Biogically they're a fruit, in the world of groceries they're vegetables. There's no reason why something can't belong in two categories depending on context.
    Sure, but my friend made it sound like Congress had rejected its biological status. In context of "pizza is a vegetable", I wouldn't be all that surprised.

  7. #7
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    There is no biological definition of a vegetable, since it can refer to any part of a plant that's eaten in a predominantly savory way, and sometimes includes things that aren't from plants at all, like mushrooms. Biological fruits that are culinary vegetables include cucumbers, zucchini, avocados, peppers, eggplants, pea pods, etc. In the US, tomatoes are taxed as vegetables, though the court case that decided that also acknowledged their biological nature as fruits.

    ETA: There isn't much nutritional difference between a biological fruit that's eaten as a savory vegetable and a non-fruit vegetable, so as far as diet goes it's moot. If you get all of your servings of "vegetables" from squash, tomatoes and peppers, you're still getting a wide range of nutrients, even if they're all fruit.
    Last edited by Zuul; 18 Nov 2011 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Added more info.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  8. #8
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by spitz View post
    Quote Originally posted by Rube E. Tewesday View post
    Biogically they're a fruit, in the world of groceries they're vegetables. There's no reason why something can't belong in two categories depending on context.
    Sure, but my friend made it sound like Congress had rejected its biological status. In context of "pizza is a vegetable", I wouldn't be all that surprised.
    I dunno, but as someone who drafts legislation for a living, I can see drafting legislation that has separate categories for fruit and vegetables, and includes tomatoes in the vegetable category. Doesn't mean that a tomato is no longer a fruit for the purposes of botany, just for the purposes of what I'm trying to accomplish in the legislation.

    ETA: Zuul seems to know way more about the actual U.S. legislation than I do.
    Last edited by Rube E. Tewesday; 18 Nov 2011 at 04:39 PM.

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    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Awesome. I found the Supreme Court decision on tomatoes. Yes, seriously.

    Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in kitchen gardens, and which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are, like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert.

    The attempt to class tomatoes as fruit is not unlike a recent attempt to class beans as seeds, of which Mr. Justice Bradley, speaking for this court, said: 'We do not see why they should be classified as seeds, any more than walnuts should be so classified. Both are seeds, in the language of botany or natural history, but not in commerce nor in common parlance. On the other hand in speaking generally of provisions, beans may well be included under the term 'vegetables.' As an article of food on our tables, whether baked or boiled, or forming the basis of soup, they are used as a vegetable, as well when ripe as when green. This is the principal use to which they are put. Beyond the common knowledge which we have on this subject, very little evidence is necessary, or can be produced.' Robertson v. Salomon, 130 U.S. 412, 414 , 9 S. Sup. Ct. Rep. 559.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  10. #10
    Elephant artifex's avatar
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    Some of my diabetic patients have noticed that the new stated range they've been given for the A1C is <8.0, instead of the more usual <7.0. I'm inclined to suspect that this change and the pizza story are secretly indications that the government and medical industry are leaning toward just giving up...

  11. #11
    Global Moderator AllWalker's avatar
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    *clears throat*

    Pizza can be healthy.

    Pizza is not a vegetable.

    Poor, poor Congress.
    Something tells me we haven't seen the last of foreshadowing.

  12. #12
    Happy New Year! Trojan Man's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    Awesome. I found the Supreme Court decision on tomatoes. Yes, seriously.

    Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in kitchen gardens, and which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are, like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert.

    The attempt to class tomatoes as fruit is not unlike a recent attempt to class beans as seeds, of which Mr. Justice Bradley, speaking for this court, said: 'We do not see why they should be classified as seeds, any more than walnuts should be so classified. Both are seeds, in the language of botany or natural history, but not in commerce nor in common parlance. On the other hand in speaking generally of provisions, beans may well be included under the term 'vegetables.' As an article of food on our tables, whether baked or boiled, or forming the basis of soup, they are used as a vegetable, as well when ripe as when green. This is the principal use to which they are put. Beyond the common knowledge which we have on this subject, very little evidence is necessary, or can be produced.' Robertson v. Salomon, 130 U.S. 412, 414 , 9 S. Sup. Ct. Rep. 559.
    OK, not as silly as I thought. Thanks Zuul

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