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Thread: Slut Walks

  1. #1
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    Default Slut Walks

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-talk-clothing

    So what's the deal with this? It is somewhat true that if kids weren't so hyper-sexualized via dress there wouldn't be as many issues with rape and such.

  2. #2
    Member F-X's avatar
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    To get men to understand rape/sexual assault, the example of theft is often used. If a man is dressed nice, looking like he has a lot of money, and he walks down the street in a bad part of town, police and regular people aren't going to have much sympathy when he gets mugged. If he resists being robbed, he also will probably be hurt as well. It's just a fact of life.

    Should a man have to dress like a dirty bum to be able to walk down the street?

    Certainly it's also a fact of life that dressing like a whore is going to get you way more attention, especially from men who want sex.

    "SlutWalking" is attracting thousands of people to take to the streets to put an end to what they believe is a culture in which it is considered acceptable to blame the victim.
    The issue is, of course, vastly more complex that that, but even so, if you take it to the logical extreme, and insist a woman should be able to walk around in a string bikini, and she isn't responsible for anything that happens, is like saying a man should be able to walk down any street in town holding wads of hundred dollar bills in plain sight, and he isn't responsible at all when he gets robbed.

    Technically, that's true. But in the real world, it doesn't work that way.
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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    I'm pretty sure taking away a person's agency over her own body is vastly different from taking away someone's wallet, but I'm not going to go into it right now, because I know there are people on this board who can speak far more eloquently on the subject than I can.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    I think the SlutWalks are horribly politically muddled affairs. If the idea is that it's inappropriate for police to characterize rape victims as sluts or at blame for their attacks, I'm not sure if walking around without pants on and waving a sign about being a slut is really the best way to approach that. The problem is that the police officer in question honestly thought "not dressing like a slut" would protect people from rape. Address that. Don't just run around in hot pants as if that's actually making a coherent statement.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    I'm pretty sure taking away a person's agency over her own body is vastly different from taking away someone's wallet, but I'm not going to go into it right now, because I know there are people on this board who can speak far more eloquently on the subject than I can.
    Um...

    NB - I have no intention of getting into any rape debates, only addressing bad logic.
    Librarians rule, Oook

  6. #6
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Malacandra View post
    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    I'm pretty sure taking away a person's agency over her own body is vastly different from taking away someone's wallet, but I'm not going to go into it right now, because I know there are people on this board who can speak far more eloquently on the subject than I can.
    Um...

    NB - I have no intention of getting into any rape debates, only addressing bad logic.
    But...vaginas aren't made of leather and stuffed with credit cards! Or are they?
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  7. #7
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    I think the SlutWalks are horribly politically muddled affairs. If the idea is that it's inappropriate for police to characterize rape victims as sluts or at blame for their attacks, I'm not sure if walking around without pants on and waving a sign about being a slut is really the best way to approach that. The problem is that the police officer in question honestly thought "not dressing like a slut" would protect people from rape. Address that. Don't just run around in hot pants as if that's actually making a coherent statement.
    Yeah, I'm not crazy about the "shock value" type of protest either. If you have a case to be made, then make it.

    But, I'm still in agreement with the statement they're trying to make. Comparisons to being robbed aren't apt to me. Men know what women have underneath their clothes, whether the clothes are "slutty" or not, so the issue isn't that the she's trying to make the world aware that she has a body part that can be violated, it's whether she's advertising her desire to be violated. Which...it's a bad assumption and it's an assumption no one's got the right to make.

  8. #8
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    Yeah, I'm not crazy about the "shock value" type of protest either. If you have a case to be made, then make it.

    But, I'm still in agreement with the statement they're trying to make. Comparisons to being robbed aren't apt to me. Men know what women have underneath their clothes, whether the clothes are "slutty" or not, so the issue isn't that the she's trying to make the world aware that she has a body part that can be violated, it's whether she's advertising her desire to be violated. Which...it's a bad assumption and it's an assumption no one's got the right to make.
    I think it's a fair statement, but it's not being put across very well. I actually think that the "no means no" meme has done some damage here, because it puts the emphasis on expressing a lack of consent instead of on looking for consent itself. I'd far prefer to see a movement pushing "yes means yes", healthy and open communication, and personal responsibility of all people. If we as a culture started moving away from being coy about things and stating what we want as far as sex goes (whether it's a definite yes, a definite no, a definite "convince me"), it would at least cut down on the predator versus prey dating dynamic that isn't good for anyone and creates a safe hiding place for true sexual predators.

    It should be possible to discuss ways a person can stay safe without blaming the victim. We can tell kids not to get in cars with strangers without implying that being kidnapped, molested or murdered is their own fault. Why does this kind of communication break down when it's adults talking to one another?
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  9. #9
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    I always though it was the "no means yes" meme that did the most damage. Then again, if it goes too far the other way, you have people having to sign consent forms for each step of the way they may or may not want to progress down.

    I don't think Slut Walks are really going to help anybody, although I can understand wanting to try and reclaim the word. Would it help if "Slut" and "Stud" had the same meaning for each gender?
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  10. #10
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    I always though it was the "no means yes" meme that did the most damage.
    Well, yeah, no denying that. I just don't think putting all of the emphasis on verbalizing non-consent has been as helpful as it could be. I've seen some horrifyingly stupid comments from people saying that an assault shouldn't count as rape if the victim didn't specifically say the word no, because resisting non-verbally doesn't fit their painfully literal reading of "no means no."

    Then again, if it goes too far the other way, you have people having to sign consent forms for each step of the way they may or may not want to progress down.
    It's not gone that far, but it has become true that an accusation of sexual predation is a good way to destroy a man, even if the accusation is found to have no merit. Acknowledging that tends to derail discussions, though. The whole cultural response is just bad all the way around.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  11. #11
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    So how are they trying to recapture and redefine what the word "Slut" means. What do they want it to mean, or do they want it mean sexually promiscous woman without the extra overtones it currently entails.

    Surely, it would be better to try and redefine it to mean, a sexually responsible person, regardless of gender.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

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