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Thread: Osama bin Laden is reportedly dead

  1. #1
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Default Osama bin Laden is reportedly dead

    This is everywhere at the moment, but there aren't any particularly good articles on it yet (little surprise) so I'll just toss this CNN link here for now. From what I understand they verified it was Bin Laden via DNA from his sister who died in the states.

    Waiting on the President's statement...
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  2. #2
    Oliphaunt
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    Yeah, I'm watching CNN now.

    Lots of super-classy tourists shouting "USA! USA!"

    I'm supposed to be flying this week. Goody.

  3. #3
    Member Elendil's Heir's avatar
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    Big, big news, if true. Hard to believe it's taken this long. I won't be shouting "USA!", but considering the monstrousness of his crimes on 9-11, I have to say I think it's for the best.

  4. #4
    Oliphaunt
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    Oh, I am satisfied that the man is dead. The cheering crowd just struck me as ... unseemly.

  5. #5
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    I'm relieved he's dead, and particularly relieved to hear that Pakistan was involved every step of the way. I'd worried about what might happen when I heard where he'd been found.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  6. #6
    Oliphaunt
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    Yes, I am very glad we went into Pakistan with Pakistan's approval.

  7. #7
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Obama's addressed seemed crafted specially to seem authoritative.

    Clearly a response to a popular Fox slam on Obama--that he lacks "leadership."

    Overseas, the dollar is way up, and oil is way down. Over reaction, perhaps, but I like the optimism behind it.

    Sleep well, all.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  8. #8
    Porosity Caster parzival's avatar
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    I'm not super bothered by the crowds gathering. It seems more like people feeling they ought to do something, and then a sort of spontaneous response possibly led by the few who actually do express that sentiment. Might be broadcast round the world the wrong way is about the only thing I can see being a problem.

    My reaction is mostly relieved, if anything. What I really hope is that we get more definite details on what happened and confirming details.

    Lara Logan made a succinct statement, something like : "Taking out bin Laden doesn't mean the end of Al-Qaeda, but you had to get rid of bin Laden in order to put an end to al-Qaeda."

  9. #9
    Mi parolas esperanton malbone Trojan Man's avatar
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    I don't really get how his death will damage al Qaeda. I hope it does, but it's not exactly a mum-and-dad enterprise.

  10. #10
    Oliphaunt
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    Someone on CNN was reporting that people don't 'join' Al-Qaeda; they swear loyalty specifically to bin Laden. So he was very central to the organization.

    Not that I'm naive enough to expect this to stop terrorism, or anything. Jackass deserved to die, though.

    Crowds at Ground Zero now.
    Last edited by Orual; 01 May 2011 at 11:45 PM.

  11. #11
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    What Orual said. Bin Laden was as much a symbol as a leader.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  12. #12
    Content Generator AllWalker's avatar
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    I found out at work. I was surprised by just how happy this news has made me.

    That might make me a bad person, I don't know. But OBL was much, much worse and he needed to die. Only thing to do now is to see how the world reacts.
    Something tells me we haven't seen the last of foreshadowing.

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    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    If true, then his death will be a blow to Al-Qaeda, but whether it will have a major impact is to be seen.

    It looks like this operation was running for several years to find him. It will be interesting to see how much political capital Obama makes out of, but he will get a boost. Here's hoping they can put down definitive proof of his death, otherwise the conspiracy nuts will have a field day, and if he isn't Obama is going to look very foolish.

    However, given the amount of coverage and the fact he has announced it, it looks like it is the real deal.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  14. #14
    Elephant terrifel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CNN
    On Sunday, the president said he ordered an operation -- carried out by a handful of U.S. troops -- to get bin Laden in Pakistan. The al Qaeda leader resisted and was killed in an ensuing firefight, and U.S. forces took custody of his body. He was later buried at sea, with one U.S. official saying his body was handled in the Islamic tradition.
    Um, what?

  15. #15
    Elephant terrifel's avatar
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    Okay a bit more searching reveals that Islamic tradition apparently requires burial within 24 hours, or else I guess they turn into a pumpkin or something. So that was a nice gesture, I suppose. Chalk one up for international brotherhood and understanding.

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    my god, he's full of stars... OneCentStamp's avatar
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    There are plenty of people out there who hate the USA, but (demonstrably) few with the necessary resources, charisma, and intelligence to pull off a 9/11. I'm glad one of them is gone. Good riddance, bin Laden.

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    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by terrifel View post
    Okay a bit more searching reveals that Islamic tradition apparently requires burial within 24 hours, or else I guess they turn into a pumpkin or something. So that was a nice gesture, I suppose. Chalk one up for international brotherhood and understanding.
    I'm actually really pleased they did this. A proper burial is civilized gesture. No matter what rage people might still feel, we haven't stooped to dehumanizing our enemies by desecrating their bodies. I've seen some people say that because he wasn't a representative Muslim there's no reason to give him a proper Muslim burial, but that really isn't our place. It's bad enough that people had to die. We don't need to add insult to it.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  18. #18
    Oliphaunt The Original An Gadaí's avatar
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    And here's my forecast for the global economy in coming months.

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    Porosity Caster parzival's avatar
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    Talking about the political strategy for a moment - the timing of the birth certificate release makes sense in this context. It seems there was a faint chance that merely bringing it up might not have gone well for Obama. He certainly had to know that if this succeeded, it would blow that off the news page.

    As for what it means for terrorists, I think it would have been far better that bin Laden had died on his own and the body simply was found (as proof). But it's not like I'd reject the chance to capture/kill him when we had it.

  20. #20
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    From the Fatawa of Ayatullah al Uzama Syed Ali al-Husaini Seestani
    624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.

  21. #21
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    From the Fatawa of Ayatullah al Uzama Syed Ali al-Husaini Seestani
    624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.
    Fascinating. I'm not Obama's biggest fan, but I think this was all handled well, and I'm feeling pretty good today.

  22. #22
    Elephant terrifel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    From the Fatawa of Ayatullah al Uzama Syed Ali al-Husaini Seestani
    624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.
    Perhaps unsurprisingly, the law appears to take it for granted that the people responsible for giving the deceased a proper burial are not the enemies who killed him in the first place. Never assume, Ali.

    If that was the concern, then maybe it would actually have been better to keep the carcass around awhile, demonstrably undesecrated. I daresay that the Islamic world is unlikely to buy the U.S. government's assurances that no trophies were taken before he was flushed, especially once his penis and testicles show up on eBay.

  23. #23
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    From the Fatawa of Ayatullah al Uzama Syed Ali al-Husaini Seestani
    624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.
    Fascinating. I'm not Obama's biggest fan, but I think this was all handled well, and I'm feeling pretty good today.
    Same here. The fringe elements on both sides won't be satisfied, but there is no grave to desecrate or to be a rallying point for people to gather at.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

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    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    I wonder if Obama had to wait a couple of days so any announcement of the mission didn't overlap with the royal wedding.

    Also, does anyone think the SEALs went in on a capture or shoot to kill policy?
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

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  26. #26
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Sending in a small, elite group sounds more like an attempt at capture than planned massacre to me. Had they simply wanted him dead it seems like there would have been easier ways to go about it.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  27. #27
    my god, he's full of stars... OneCentStamp's avatar
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    Yeah, missile strike.

  28. #28
    Oliphaunt
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    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    I wonder if Obama had to wait a couple of days so any announcement of the mission didn't overlap with the royal wedding.
    Since this guy was tweeting about helicopters in Abbottabad yesterday, I'm pretty sure the raid happened when Obama said it did.

    Quote Originally posted by twitter guy
    Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event ...A huge window shaking bang here in Abbottabad Cantt. I hope its not the start of something nasty :-S ... Since taliban (probably) don't have helicpoters, and since they're saying it was not "ours", so must be a complicated situation ... The abbottabad helicopter/UFO was shot down near the Bilal Town area, and there's report of a flash. People saying it could be a drone ... people are saying it was not a technical fault and it was shot down. I heard it CIRCLE 3-4 times above, sounded purposeful. ... Uh oh, now I'm the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it.
    Quote Originally posted by terrifel View post
    I can dream, can't I? (Seriously, I expect security at the airport to be even more annoying this week. Sigh.)

  29. #29
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Pretty amazing event. I glad he was finally got but the USA chants disturb me quite a bit.

    I am proud of the Navy SEALS though.

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    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    It's amazing how some news channels got mixed up, so that the news reads Obama is dead
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  31. #31
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    Sending in a small, elite group sounds more like an attempt at capture than planned massacre to me. Had they simply wanted him dead it seems like there would have been easier ways to go about it.
    Quote Originally posted by OneCentStamp View post
    Yeah, missile strike.
    The way they did it, they were able to obtain the body for visual and DNA identification, whereas if they used a missile, there may not have been anything left to identify.

  32. #32
    Oliphaunt
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    My favorite blogger wrote a piece that sums up a lot of my feelings in a more eloquent way than I am capable of expressing (as is her wont).

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    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    Some more news that could be interesting. It seems that a lot of the intel that kicked all this off was obtained under torture from inmates at Guantanamo Bay.

    Does this mean that the US Government will continue these practices saying that it led directly to the death of OBL, and so it should be considered a legitimate technique in fighting terrorism.

    More here
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

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    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    I can't back the use of torture, no matter what. But, it does put an interesting light on the question of why Obama hasn't closed Guantanamo. I've always figured there was a good reason that he didn't keep that promise, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that reason has something to do with this military action.

  35. #35
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    I can't back the use of torture, no matter what. But, it does put an interesting light on the question of why Obama hasn't closed Guantanamo. I've always figured there was a good reason that he didn't keep that promise, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that reason has something to do with this military action.
    If he closed Gitmo now, and said something like, "NOW we can close Gitmo", I think all would be forgiven.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

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    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Oliveloaf View post
    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    I can't back the use of torture, no matter what. But, it does put an interesting light on the question of why Obama hasn't closed Guantanamo. I've always figured there was a good reason that he didn't keep that promise, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that reason has something to do with this military action.
    If he closed Gitmo now, and said something like, "NOW we can close Gitmo", I think all would be forgiven.
    Seriously. Just goes to show, though, that it's easy to make all kinds of promises when you're running for president, without really knowing what you're talking about until you get there.

  37. #37
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Apparently the woman who was killed while being used as a human shield may have been one of bin Laden's wives.

    Bin Laden engaged in the firefight, but it was unclear if he picked up a firearm or shot any rounds. Brennan also identified bin Laden as the combatant who had used a woman as a human shield. She was the only woman who died in the operation, which also killed a courier for bin Laden, the courier's brother, and one of bin Laden's sons, Brennan said. Brennan later said it was his understanding that the woman was one of bin Laden's wives.

    "She served as a shield — this is my understanding — when she fought back — when there was an opportunity to get to bin Laden — she was positioned in a way that she was used as a shield. My understanding was she was one of bin Laden's wives," Brennan told reporters.
    Also:

    Brennan was repeatedly asked if the Navy Seals team that conducted the operations was under orders to kill, not capture, bin Laden.

    "If we had the opportunity to take him alive, we would have done that," Brennan said, noting that he and other security officials expected bin Laden to fight back, which he did. "We're hoping to bury the rest of al-Qaeda along with bin Laden."
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  38. #38
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    I wish the Press would change the reporting on "Human Shields". I my opinion the story should be that "Osama got an innocent woman killed when he tried to cowardly used her as a shield. Only the lowest of the low would of course have acted like this."

  39. #39
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    They've since updated the story. The woman ObL spinelessly hid behind was not his wife. His wife was the other woman who was injured, but survived.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  40. #40
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    The President and National Security Team watched developments in the situation from live feed. It looks like it was a fairly grim affair. I don't envy them.



    NYT article.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  41. #41
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    That is an amazing picture to me. Obama looks a little stunned and HRC looks almost sick with worry and Biden looks, well I don't know confused with a tough of indigestion?

  42. #42
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    With the way Biden is sitting, I'm wondering if something had just happened and he turned to look at the screen? That might explain the sort of blank/confused look.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  43. #43
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    More and more people are beginning to raise questions about Pakistan as to how he could have a mansion so close to the main Pakistan Army Officer training camp.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  44. #44
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Pakistan, the worse ally a country can have? (Well not counting France of the 70s & 80s)

  45. #45
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Really good NYT article on the operation here.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  46. #46
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post

    Seriously. Just goes to show, though, that it's easy to make all kinds of promises when you're running for president, without really knowing what you're talking about until you get there.
    I've often thought this. Look how much this job ages people. It must be brutal. I suspect you learn a lot of scary stuff when you first step into the Oval Office.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

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  47. #47
    Oliphaunt
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Pakistan, the worse ally a country can have? (Well not counting France of the 70s & 80s)
    Hell, I'm not sure they're the worst ally we have right now. Saudi Arabia makes a mighty good claim.

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    Elephant Ramses's avatar
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    Best jokes to come out of it.

    Not Too Soon.

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    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    I just wish we were not starting to get conflicting information about what happened, it gives so much ammunition to conspiracy theorists.

    Whether or not he was armed, who he was hiding behind if indeed he was at all.

    I'm not saying he isn't dead, but I am beginning to wonder what exactly occured.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  50. #50
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    If everything, from the planning and decision making through to the assault, identification and burial, were on video and released to the public, then the nuts would say the video was fabricated. To them, the moon landing was filmed on a set on Earth.

    Nothing will satisfy the nuts, so there is no use in trying to satisfying them. Release information based on public interest, yes, but not specifically to try to convince the nuts.
    Last edited by Muffin; 04 May 2011 at 05:17 AM.

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