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Thread: Zuuls Comments in GBs Mellophant Post-Mortem Thread

  1. #1
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
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    Default Zuuls Comments in GBs Mellophant Post-Mortem Thread

    *This OP may be slightly confusing for some because I am responding to comments made on another board, specifically here. Im discussing them here because I feel that Mellobidness should be discussed on Mellophant. *

    So, while Zuul is over here telling everyone to keep their chins up and that numbers are fine, she's over there participating in our post-mortem. Apparently our death was caused by (among other issues, like the disastrous mode election):

    Quote Originally posted by Zuul
    5) Cliquishness. Specifically, people who had a certain "vision" of ideological purity on the site, who felt that anyone who didn't match this vision should be driven away. Great way to make it impossible to ever have an interesting discussion. Unless you find "omg I like boys TOO!" interesting.
    Cliques, Zuul? I was under the impression that what we were was a group of friends, which you were a part of as much as anyone else. Didn't we all sit together in chate and commiserate with you about your house and offer support on your family situation? Didn't we all do that sort of thing for each other, for hours every day? I certainly never considered you and I (and I know I am included in this shit you are now talking) as being anything but members of the same close-knit circle. And here I find that we were a clique, that you are now implying you were not a part of. Well, ok.

    Quote Originally posted by elmwood
    I'll add one more thing. I think that much like the recent RAEP RAEP RAEP! obsession on the SDMB, pet topics began to emerge on Mellophant that turned off many potential users, and probably drove away many that remained. Mainly, sexual orientation and gender identity issues. It wasn't just a phase, though, and the topic was quite prevalent throughout the site. In my opinion, there was some truth behind the Snarker moniker of "Trannyphant."
    Quote Originally posted by Zuul
    I hadn't considered it like that, but you may very well be right. I know there are reasons why I burn out quickly on most LGBT and feminism oriented sites I visit, and this is one of them. There's only so much navel gazing and raging over minutiae people can take.
    So, the issue is apparently that our socially conscious little board was a turn off for some straight cisgendered people. Well, if you consider that a problem, what would you rather we have done? Maybe we should have limited the GLBT threads to once a month? Maybe those members of the board shouldnt have talked about their lives so much in chat? I LIKED that you guys, my friends, felt comfortable enough at Mello to discuss this stuff. There was a reason that happened, and its because it was the environment we wanted. And frankly, look - its insulting to us non-GLBT folks to assume we cant handle hearing about or seeing these issues discussed.

    Navel gazing?

    Rage?

    Minutiae?

    Zuul, just because you enjoy palling around with people who use hate speech (that post of yours came almost right after those posts of hers, so its pretty obvious that you saw it) does not mean that the rest of the posters here would. I dont think that when Rabbit and Tom and Exy and Panda and Nerbles and you and I shouted down bigots that it was a bad thing to do. You certainly never indicated that it was a problem when we were all doing it together. And Mellophant continues to benefit from the fact that we made, not a safe space, but at least a place where tranny and fag jokes are not considered de rigueur.

    And one last thing:

    Quote Originally posted by Zuul
    It was a board without a point that couldn't even revel in its own pointlessness, instead suffering from delusions of grandeur and relevancy like a stumbling drunk shouting about how S-M-R-T he is.
    Delusions of who and what now? Im pretty sure most of us just considered this a place to hang out with people we liked. Who were you under the impression we were trying to be relevant to? And anyway, this is a remarkably shitty thing to say about a community you run and claim to care about.

    What really pisses me off, though - is that the things I appreciated about Mellophant, you are over there apologizing for. Im sorry that you didnt like it for what it was. I did. And I know that a lot of other people did, too.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  2. #2
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
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    Hey girl, long time no see.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

  3. #3
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
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    What's up, brother?

    Hope you are well.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    The internet: serious fucking business.

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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Wow, Myrna! Thanks for bringing this topic to everyone's attention. It's so nice to see that you have so much care and respect for Mello that you're willing to show up here when you want to start shit.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    The internet: serious fucking business.
    So you're okay with the idea that hey, this board would've been better if us trannies had just kept our mouths shut a little more? Way to be, bro.

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    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    Wow, Myrna! Thanks for bringing this topic to everyone's attention. It's so nice to see that you have so much care and respect for Mello that you're willing to show up here when you want to start shit.
    But it's perfectly kosher to go over to another community that has a long-standing animosity to specific people, and make veiled attacks there?

    I don't think that there's much reason to expect that any attempt Myrna might make to confront Zuul there would have turned into anything but a pig pile.

    Considering how I perceived Zuul's support for much of the confrontations that did happen, having her posting over there that she wanted to rein it in seemed self-serving, at best, and damned close to being two-faced. It seemed to me that when Zuul made that post she was taking advantage of a forum where she could make attacks on posters or former posters here in a venue where she felt safe that no one could confront her. That may not have been her intent, but it damned sure looks that way from where I sit.

  8. #8
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    If you'll note how many posts I have on Giraffe Boards, you'll see I'm not "going over to another community" in order to talk behind people's backs. I'm not as prolific over there as I am here but it's actually a community I consider myself a part of. I have a number of people there I consider friends, some of whom used to post here and others that I only met through GB. Hell, Uth has single-handedly built my Netflix queue.

    There was a thread about DoMeBo, I responded. As did Sarah, What Exit, elmwood, McNutty, and several other people who've held prominent places in this community in the past.

    I also did not say that Mellophant was dead at any point. Actually, I've pointed out our strong gaming community a bunch of times over there and talked about that being where a lot of activity is still going on. Because Mellophant is not dead I tried to keep the separation between DoMeBo and Mellophant clear in my posts, citing the issues that existed in DoMeBo in the early days which are the primary cause of our major losses in numbers.

    This part:

    The original purpose of Dumbo (keeping Dopers in contact with one another with no real aim beyond that) could've been filled by having a group on Facebook. It was a board without a point that couldn't even revel in its own pointlessness, instead suffering from delusions of grandeur and relevancy like a stumbling drunk shouting about how S-M-R-T he is.
    is in reference to DoMeBo, as it says and as should be clear from the past tense. If no one else remembers the terribly serious debates over silly things, nitpicking, and overinflated sense of worth that went on in the early days, then I commend you for your ability to block them out.

    "Navel gazing and raging at minutiae" is in reference to my experiences in certain LGBT oriented communities, which I thought was clear in context. elmwood had pointed something out, and I was expressing my thoughts on how I could see that those sorts of focuses might be exhausting after a while, though I had not ever considered what he was saying before in regards to this board.

    CRSP was able to post in that thread and take his lumps and admit his mistakes. Considering that when I'm talking about mistakes that were made in running the place I was a mod at the time as well, I thought it was obvious that I was also admitting my own mistakes. If it wasn't: I, like CRSP, admit and accept blame for a lot of the fuckups on DoMeBo.

    The majority of discussion in that thread was actually very friendly. Yes, there's a flippant, teasing tone to it, but there isn't some boiling pot of hatred about Mellophant over there. The sore spots between the two boards are few and far between these days.

    If

    Quote Originally posted by Caerie
    I say every last fucking word here with foul-mouthed love, though. God help me, I care about the stupid board.
    can't be understood in the loving, affectionately exasperated tone of someone who has put a lot of time into a community, then I don't really know what to say.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  9. #9
    Elen sla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki View post
    But it's perfectly kosher to go over to another community that has a long-standing animosity to specific people, and make veiled attacks there?

    I don't think that there's much reason to expect that any attempt Myrna might make to confront Zuul there would have turned into anything but a pig pile.

    Considering how I perceived Zuul's support for much of the confrontations that did happen, having her posting over there that she wanted to rein it in seemed self-serving, at best, and damned close to being two-faced. It seemed to me that when Zuul made that post she was taking advantage of a forum where she could make attacks on posters or former posters here in a venue where she felt safe that no one could confront her. That may not have been her intent, but it damned sure looks that way from where I sit.
    How was it two-faced? What did she say that was incorrect or slamming ex-posters? Sorry, this looks more like offense found then offense for real.

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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    "Navel gazing and raging at minutiae" is in reference to my experiences in certain LGBT oriented communities, which I thought was clear in context. elmwood had pointed something out, and I was expressing my thoughts on how I could see that those sorts of focuses might be exhausting after a while, though I had not ever considered what he was saying before in regards to this board.
    Yeah, that (refering to your past experiences with other communities) was clear and no one is contesting it. I've been around the internet and seen plenty of sites like that too. If you're going to bring them up AT ALL in that thread, the only reason to is comparing them to Mellophant. And I think you know damn well Mellophant has never been endless raging and minutiae over queer issues. It was people sharing their life experiences, discussing and informing on queer issues and often questioning people for saying problematic things. (which seemed to have still been important even recently: http://www.mellophant.com/forums/sho...n-let-off-jail)

    It's kind of ridiculous to suggest that elmwood was saying anything other than "well, if you just hadn't talked about GLBT issues so much, maybe you'd have more users. Cause you know, we really don't care to hear about the trannies" And I'm sorry, but I don't see how saying well gee, I never gave the thought before Mello might be like that comes off as anything other than giving that idea more due than it's worth.
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    Quote Originally posted by Taumpy View post
    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    The internet: serious fucking business.
    So you're okay with the idea that hey, this board would've been better if us trannies had just kept our mouths shut a little more? Way to be, bro.
    Or maybe, just maybe, he doesn't view the incident in the same light you do? Possibly?

    What am I thinking, that's just crazy-talk.

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    How was it two-faced? What did she say that was incorrect or slamming ex-posters?
    I'm kind of wondering about that myself. The idea that no one should talk about Mello anywhere but here is kind of lost on me.

    And the idea that Zuul construct her response and/or post her impressions so that they might be conveniently responded to by someone who ... hasn't posted on either board in months? That seems more than a little off-kilter to me.
    Last edited by Orual; 27 Jan 2011 at 10:14 PM.

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    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    Zuul gave her opinions, she came by them honestly and she expressed them honestly. She did it on GB because someone started a thread about us, and I don't see why it's a problem for actual people who have been involved with domebo/Mello to address this stuff when it comes up in the doperverse. IMO, anyone who thinks that Zuul doesn't care about Mellophant or about anyone who posts on it is way, way off base, and I don't think anything she said there contradicts that.

  13. #13
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    How was it two-faced? What did she say that was incorrect or slamming ex-posters?
    Well, she's talking about "cliquishness" as though there was some group of people separate from herself that was driving the culture of the board. But this is not true. We were ALL (you, me, Zuul, Sarah, everyone in this thread) in the same "clique" (if that word is even fair). She's pointing fingers back at people that she said at the time were all her friends.

    Zuul, there's no bad blood between the two boards? So this attack on Aggie didn't happen just last week?

    Quote Originally posted by Zuul
    "Navel gazing and raging at minutiae" is in reference to my experiences in certain LGBT oriented communities, which I thought was clear in context. elmwood had pointed something out, and I was expressing my thoughts on how I could see that those sorts of focuses might be exhausting after a while, though I had not ever considered what he was saying before in regards to this board.
    This argument is just a mess, as Tom points out. It doesn't matter that you "never thought about it before", elmwood clearly said that the prevalence of queer issues was harmful to the board, and you agreed that his point was valid.

    Quote Originally posted by Orual
    And the idea that Zuul construct her response and/or post her impressions so that they might be conveniently responded to by someone who ... hasn't posted on either board in months? That seems more than a little off-kilter to me.
    Just recently, pepperlandgirl had been absent for months and came back to give her opinions, as a mod, on a board issue. This was perfectly fine with Zuul, therefore, I can't say this point is legitimate.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    Is there a point to this thread other than Myrna bringing in drama and her friends backing her up?

    No, I don't think so.

    And Tom, shut up. Seriously. You implying that Mello is somehow not trans friendly or that Zuul thinks it would be better with less tran is so stupid it's almost funny, but too stupid to actually be funny. So I guess what I'm saying it it's stupid.
    Last edited by RabbitMage; 28 Jan 2011 at 12:26 AM.

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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    And Tom, shut up. Seriously. You implying that Mello is somehow not trans friendly or that Zuul thinks it would be better with less tran is so stupid it's almost funny, but too stupid to actually be funny. So I guess what I'm saying it it's stupid.
    Well, you'd be right about the stupid part if that was what I was implying. Except, oh wait, it wasn't at all. I'm pretty sure I specifically said that Mello IS transfriendly, and not that Zuul doesn't want it that way, but that's she's willing to apologize for it, cause you know, it's upsetting the poor straight cisman's sensibilities.

    TLDR Translation: "I can't defend it, so I'll pretend you said something else entirely".

  16. #16
    Oliphaunt The Original An Gada's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Taumpy View post
    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    And Tom, shut up. Seriously. You implying that Mello is somehow not trans friendly or that Zuul thinks it would be better with less tran is so stupid it's almost funny, but too stupid to actually be funny. So I guess what I'm saying it it's stupid.
    Well, you'd be right about the stupid part if that was what I was implying. Except, oh wait, it wasn't at all. I'm pretty sure I specifically said that Mello IS transfriendly, and not that Zuul doesn't want it that way, but that's she's willing to apologize for it, cause you know, it's upsetting the poor straight cisman's sensibilities.

    TLDR Translation: "I can't defend it, so I'll pretend you said something else entirely".
    As a cisman i find the implication that this board is LBGT welcoming offensive.

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    I understood something to that effect was said somewhere. I don't know. I don't really care. I'm not going to do in-depth research for this because I have Actual Homework and an Actual Life and Actual Things to focus on.

    My concerns about the purpose of this thread remain: what's the point other than Myrna is still pissed off at Zuul and wants to stir up shit?

  18. #18
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The Original An Gada View post
    As a cisman i find the implication that this board is LBGT welcoming offensive.
    That's because you're so privileged.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    My concerns about the purpose of this thread remain: what's the point other than Myrna is still pissed off at Zuul and wants to stir up shit?
    The point is that Myrna "loves Mello" so much that she'd rather see it flame out than grow without her.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  20. #20
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    Is there a point to this thread other than Myrna bringing in drama and her friends backing her up?
    I don't actually have a problem with you, Rabbit, or with Marsilia, but it's pretty ironic that you are implying that Tom's opinion is not valid because he is a friend of mine. Just sayin.
    Last edited by Myrnalene; 28 Jan 2011 at 01:25 AM. Reason: type ggood
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    The Apostabulous Inner Stickler's avatar
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    I find it hard to believe one could make a credible case for Zuul not loving mello or at least enjoying it. Certainly, if she feels it is an albatross around her neck, I would hope she would simply say so as CRSP has done. On the other hand, I can also see how one could view her comments as impolitic. On the other other hand, while Zuul attempts to be keeping a distinction between mello and domebo, I rather doubt others are and are casting their opinions about both boards. Frankly, the number of people over there whose opinions I might value are relatively few. And it is a little irritating to have a board that one participates in and daily utilizing described as dead by people who flounced off months ago or never were a part of it. I know dead boards and this ain't one.
    I don't think so, therefore I'm probably not.

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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    I don't actually have a problem with you, Rabbit, or with Marsilia, but it's pretty ironic that you implying are Tom's opinion is not valid because he is a friend of mine. Just sayin.
    Actually, Tom's opinion is entirely valid, if not entirely based in the reality of the situation. Zuul is interested in LGBT issues, thus didn't take into account that many straight, cisgendered people might not be as interested in LGBT issues. When there are a lot of science threads, or literature that bores me threads, or anything anything else I'm not going to post about for any number of reasons, I don't post. If that became a trend and I saw no end in sight, I might leave the board. Would you and Tom be so outraged if Zuul had apologized for a glut of Tolkien threads? Video game threads?
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    Is there a point to this thread other than Myrna bringing in drama and her friends backing her up?
    I don't actually have a problem with you, Rabbit, or with Marsilia, but it's pretty ironic that you are implying that Tom's opinion is not valid because he is a friend of mine. Just sayin.
    Well, I am greatly comforted by that, I assure you. But it seems to be your sole purpose in posting here is to take shots at the person I love, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't come bearing much goodwill toward you.

    And Tom's opinion isn't valid because what he asked me and implied in that asking was asinine, and would be even if he wasn't your friend.

  24. #24
    The Apostabulous Inner Stickler's avatar
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    Well, yes. I make no apologies for the culture of the board. I've certainly started threads that died on the vine. The board is what we make it and if there's a glut of threads of some sort, then there is probably an audience for those threads.

    I'm sorry our board does not talk about issues the GB finds relevant. Then again, if we were talking about things they liked, what would they have to talk about over there?
    I don't think so, therefore I'm probably not.

  25. #25
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    Would you and Tom be so outraged if Zuul had apologized for a glut of Tolkien threads? Video game threads?
    Seeing as how Tolkien fans and video game players are not members of an oppressed group who are routinely marginalized and silenced, it's not really that same thing. But if she had felt the need to apologize about those kinds of threads, I would still find it off-putting, yeah. Why would active members of a board talking to each other on topics that interest them (as long as the topics aren't, I dunno, white power or plots to assassinate the president) ever be a negative thing? Like Sticky says, this is Mellophant and and we talked about stuff that Mellos wanted to talk about.

    There was also never a "glut" of threads on this stuff. Go right now and look at The Crucible (which is where most of these types of threads were) and tell me how the GLBT threads are crowding out the other threads. They aren't, not even close.

    And in fact, there are a lot of game threads on this board and the fact that no one has even thought that they might be a problem, but that the GLBT threads are, kind of speaks for itself.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    It's cute how you glossed over the part where I pointed out that people with nothing to add to a post on LGBT issues wouldn't want to post when there were a lot of LGBT-centric threads. Just drop it, Myrna. You're a shrill little harpy who just brought this up so you could try to stir shit. Crawl back under your rock and stay the fuck there.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    apologize about those
    Quote Originally posted by Zuul
    I hadn't considered it like that, but you may very well be right. I know there are reasons why I burn out quickly on most LGBT and feminism oriented sites I visit, and this is one of them. There's only so much navel gazing and raging over minutiae people can take.
    I'm not seeing anything that equates to 'apology' in Zuul's quote. So let me assemble a timeline.

    Elmwood: "You have a lot of queer threads that might be off-putting to non-queers."
    Zuul: "That is possibly true, yes."
    Myrna: "ZUUL WANTS TRANNIES AND HOMOS TO STFU!@!11!"

    Or was it...

    Elmwood: "You have a lot of queer threads that might be off-putting to non-queers."
    Zuul: "That is possibly true, yes."
    Myrna: "A-ha! Another thread I can add to this post to stir up drama on a board I never visit anymore because I'm pissed off the admin banned my BFF! Wheee!"

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    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Oh, Rabbit, you misunderstand Myrna. She loves this board so much! That's why she keeps coming back with a new Very Public Attack.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    The Apostabulous Inner Stickler's avatar
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    This color is unbecoming on all of you.
    I don't think so, therefore I'm probably not.

  30. #30
    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    Oh, Rabbit, you misunderstand Myrna. She loves this board so much! That's why she keeps coming back with a new Very Public Attack.
    Oh, of course! I know people who've had similar relationships with their family members. You know, the ones who only call when they need bail money or to tell you how useless you are.

    It is the truest kind of love. Mello should realize how lucky it is.

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    Quote Originally posted by Inner Stickler View post
    This color is unbecoming on all of you.
    I do have terrible fashion sense.

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    Quote Originally posted by RabbitMage View post
    It is the truest kind of love. Mello should realize how lucky it is.
    Or, she might just be practicing for her turn on a reality dating show. She has to show her love for Mello by trying to sabotage as many people's relationships with the board as she can.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    I LOVED MELLO FIRST

    WE'RE GOING TO BE TOGETHER FOREVER

    IT'S ON NOW

  34. #34
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    YOU DON'T LOVE MELLO LIKE I DO BITCH

    DON'T MAKE ME TAKE OFF MY RINGS
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  35. #35
    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    I AM GOING TO SNATCH THE WEAVE RIGHT OUT OF YOUR HAIR

  36. #36
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    OH BRING IT ON SKANK
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  37. #37
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    I guess I should consider myself lucky I never got invited to join in any clique here.

    Those threads in the Crucible, nearly half of those are mine on a variety of topics. Want to know why I start so many, it's to give variety to this place. Same goes for the News Room as well. Why, because a board that only winds up talking about a particular theme over and over gets stale very quickly. In Mellophant's case it was LGBT issues.

    Myrna, your OP is deliberately aimed to paint Zuul in as poor a light as possible and having read the GB thread, I think the points you have raised are fairly groundless.

    It is disappointing that your return to this board is only to complain instead of trying to be part of the community you claim friendship with.
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  38. #38
    Elen sla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    I guess I should consider myself lucky I never got invited to join in any clique here.

    Those threads in the Crucible, nearly half of those are mine on a variety of topics. Want to know why I start so many, it's to give variety to this place. Same goes for the News Room as well. Why, because a board that only winds up talking about a particular theme over and over gets stale very quickly. In Mellophant's case it was LGBT issues.

    Myrna, your OP is deliberately aimed to paint Zuul in as poor a light as possible and having read the GB thread, I think the points you have raised are fairly groundless.

    It is disappointing that your return to this board is only to complain instead of trying to be part of the community you claim friendship with.
    Hey, no renouncing your clique. You are firmly part of the odd little side part of the board. The gamers.

    Those Crucible threads are great and do help keep the board alive. Oliveloaf in particular generates a lot of fun threads and Loki gives us additional rage and debate threads.



    Myrna, this thread does not become you. There was no need for it. You took and greatly expanded a few remarks from a thread with a lot of content from the 3 people who were actually in charge of running DoMeBo/Mellophant and seemed to have created grief. We even got input from the two the hosted it. Zuul was not being two faced at all. When almost every poster in that thread specifically mentioned Exy and many mentioned you, she did not did she? All boards have cliques, this board had many and still has a few though with so few active posters they are not overly pronounced.

  39. #39
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    Well, she's talking about "cliquishness" as though there was some group of people separate from herself that was driving the culture of the board. But this is not true. We were ALL (you, me, Zuul, Sarah, everyone in this thread) in the same "clique" (if that word is even fair). She's pointing fingers back at people that she said at the time were all her friends.
    Actually, I was pointing fingers at myself. There are a number of "cliquish" events here that I've been involved in that I'm ashamed of. One that's weighed particularly heavy on my mind is driving Malacandra off. With very little to go on about him but one thread and a few comments, I hopped in the "SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET" steamroller. When I acknowledge mistakes and problems in the community, I'm not trying to point fingers. I'm acknowledging mistakes and problems because they are things I've thought about that I'd like to fix.

    The reading of one mild comment to elmwood as apology for the existence of LGBT people on this board is, frankly, absurd. I was saying that if I can get burned out on LGBT oriented communities I could see how it might be possible for straight, cis people to have a lower threshhold. I certainly didn't say "and I'll change that to make people more comfortable" or "and we are wrong for discussing things people don't want to think about" or "golly, I sure do wish all the queers would go away." I just acknowledged that he might be accurately describing the impressions of other people like him. There was no apology in it and I sincerely doubt elmwood took it as an apology.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  40. #40
    Elen sla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Funny, the Malacandra pile-on is one of the times this place pissed me off the most. That was really pathetic to me. But of course that was influenced by the fact I like Mal. I interacted with him via Email long before Mello and even before my game. Still hope he might decide to post again as I hate the fact we rarely get disagreement on issues here. Just on the board itself it seems like. There is little debate here overall. Anyone with a set of opinions outside the Mellophant norm has pretty much given up on the place. Even Hates has given up. I enjoy debating and talking to people with different ideas. I'm fairly sure he landed in DoMeBo before me and was one of the reasons I joined.

    I checked, he is #27. Which I think means he was #25 overall to sign up on DoMeBo. CatInASuit and DancesWithCats were the other two I saw on DoMebo and active that convinced me to join.

  41. #41
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Funny, the Malacandra pile-on is one of the times this place pissed me off the most. That was really pathetic to me. But of course that was influenced by the fact I like Mal. I interacted with him via Email long before Mello and even before my game. Still hope he might decide to post again as I hate the fact we rarely get disagreement on issues here. Just on the board itself it seems like. There is little debate here overall. Anyone with a set of opinions outside the Mellophant norm has pretty much given up on the place.
    Yeah, and that's what I feel bad about. I have very different viewpoints from Malacandra, but he's a witty, articulate poster and we're the lesser for not having his input outside of game threads. With a small community where a lot of people have similar viewpoints, those pile-ons are all too easy and I don't like that I've been part of them.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  42. #42
    Elen sla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    Yeah, and that's what I feel bad about. I have very different viewpoints from Malacandra, but he's a witty, articulate poster and we're the lesser for not having his input outside of game threads. With a small community where a lot of people have similar viewpoints, those pile-ons are all too easy and I don't like that I've been part of them.
    I found the final thread for Mal BTW, You were hardly the worst in the pile-on and for the record neither was Myrna.

    It might go a long way with Malacandra if you PM'd him the regret. Maybe he would start posting again. I mean between CIAS, EH and myself there are 3 frequent posters he is at least Internet friends with.

  43. #43
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    I was awake in the middle of the night last night for an hour, and in my head composed a couple truly brilliant posts for this thread . Unfortunately, I fell back asleep, and when I woke up they were of course completely gone, and now I'm left to come up with my usual drivel.

    I'm not going to try to defend Zuul point by point. As I said before, I don't think she wrote anything that was wildly incorrect. Some of it is opinion, some is fact, but everything she said is reasonable and supportable. A lot of the issues domebo had, and to a lesser extent Mellophant, stem from peoples' perceptions that may or may not be completely accurate factually, but nonetheless exist in the heads of the participants, and even more to the point, exist out there on the internet. That's the way it is, and arguing and refuting that the perceptions are wrong is tilting at windmills. A lot of water has gone under the bridge in the past 2 years, and I don't think we're going to change any minds. Zuul was acknowledging that certain perceptions exist, that's all. One good thing that did come out of that thread is correction of some factual misconceptions, which is nice, but I doubt any of that will go far to change opinions that have been formed over the span of time we've been in existence and are due to many different factors.

    That all being said, Myrna, I am really disappointed that this thread was started. I've had my problems with GB over the past couple of years, but there are people there who have been part of our community who I like. There are people there who HAVEN'T been part of our community that I like. I disagree that Mello bidness should stay on Mello. They talk about us. In some cases, the ARE us. They are going to talk about it, and it does no good to ignore it. If anything, it's likely to help diffuse tension and maybe give people the idea that there is some good stuff going on here that is worthwhile. As you know, I disagree that the members we have are all we should ever have. I enjoy dissenting viewpoints. I HAVE dissenting viewpoints from a lot (most) of the people on this board. I want us to grow if that's at all possible, and I have to say that this thread of yours is far more damaging to Mellophant than anything any of us said over at GB. People here who don't like drama will have one more reason to say it's not worth it. And people who aren't here will have one more reason to decide they don't think they want to stop by. Why would they want to drop by in the middle of some internal drama?

    Others in this thread have touched on your love for the board, and what does it mean if you are going to stir up drama and start fights? I think that's a very valid question. Loving Mello isn't about defending it to the death against everyone who takes issue with it. Especially when those doing it love the board just as much as you do and want to see it grow and thrive. Damn, you know I like you and Exy, too. You guys are my friends, and I've missed you. But this just isn't the way to deal with Mello bidness. It just isn't.

  44. #44
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    It might go a long way with Malacandra if you PM'd him the regret. Maybe he would start posting again. I mean between CIAS, EH and myself there are 3 frequent posters he is at least Internet friends with.
    I'll PM him. At the very least, I feel I owe him an apology.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  45. #45
    Oliphaunt
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    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    Well, she's talking about "cliquishness" as though there was some group of people separate from herself that was driving the culture of the board.
    That is an assumption of yours that has no basis in reality. Nothing in Zuul's post suggested to me that the cliquishness was something seperate from her.

    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene View post
    Quote Originally posted by Orual
    And the idea that Zuul construct her response and/or post her impressions so that they might be conveniently responded to by someone who ... hasn't posted on either board in months? That seems more than a little off-kilter to me.
    Just recently, pepperlandgirl had been absent for months and came back to give her opinions, as a mod, on a board issue. This was perfectly fine with Zuul, therefore, I can't say this point is legitimate.
    If you think bringing up YET MORE OLD SHIT is going to change my opinion of your behvior in this thread, you're very much mistaken. I don't give a flying fuck what pepper did, or what Zuul's opinion of it was, because, oddly enough, I'm neither Zuul nor pepper. And it isn't at all relevent to how I arrived at my current opinion.

  46. #46
    Stegodon Heffalump's avatar
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    Hey Myrna! Nice to see you again.

    ~waves~

    I haven't read the thread yet. I just wanted to say hi.

  47. #47
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    I want to post something here that would piss off everyone equally. I like to be equitable.

    When I think of it, I will post it.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  48. #48
    Elen sla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Oliveloaf View post
    I want to post something here that would piss off everyone equally. I like to be equitable.

    When I think of it, I will post it.
    Stay above it man, don't fall into the pit with the rest of us.

  49. #49
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Quote Originally posted by Oliveloaf View post
    I want to post something here that would piss off everyone equally. I like to be equitable.

    When I think of it, I will post it.
    Stay above it man, don't fall into the pit with the rest of us.
    Sigh. Okay.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  50. #50
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

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