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Thread: Should this person have been let off jail?

  1. #1
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
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    Default Should this person have been let off jail?

    A transvestite drug dealer who was due to start hornmone treatment for a sex change has been spared jail, on account of the fact it would prevent him being able to go through with a sex change. He was due to serve 11 months in a men's jail for drug offences, but that will now be a suspended sentence as he is undergoing gender reassignment. Instead there will be a six month curfew.

    More on the story here

    Ok, the question is: should he have been let off jail?

    On the one hand, the person has a chance to rebuild their life.
    On the other hand, they committed a crime.

    My opinion is that if it could be shown from the psychiatric evalution that the person is unlikely to engage in criminal behaviour afterwards, then its probably the right decision. Given it is a suspended sentence, any further crime would result in the treatment being halted and them winding up in jail.

    What do you think?
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    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Being sent to a men's prison would be insanely dangerous for a trans woman, so I can certainly see why her lawyer could get a good argument against that. Being that early in transition, there would be problems for her in a women's prison as well. I'm not sure why they gave her a curfew instead of house arrest, though. House arrest I could get behind, but curfew seems unusually light. Then again, there might have been other things factoring into that decision, as that article is absolutely atrocious and repeatedly refers to Jean Morris as a man despite the fact that it's clear from the quotes she goes by female pronouns.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  3. #3
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Drug use or drug sales? First way is pretty close to a non-crime anyway so can't see any issue with it. Even if a dealer, it sounds like prison would be very unsafe.

    Zuul, you expect the entire world to drag itself out of the past with the pronoun issue. It is not atrocious, it is fairly normal and still changing. Change won't come overnight. I won't suggest patience but I will suggest the world is not and will not change at the pace you want.

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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    A transvestite drug dealer who was due to start hornmone treatment for a sex change
    Bolding mine. Someone who is planning on undergoing HRT and SRS is not a transvestite (and as Zuul points out she clearly identifies as a woman, so you should probably use female pronouns for her), and generally in that case it is considered a derogatory term. FYI.

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Zuul, you expect the entire world to drag itself out of the past with the pronoun issue. It is not atrocious, it is fairly normal and still changing. Change won't come overnight. I won't suggest patience but I will suggest the world is not and will not change at the pace you want.
    Jim, the only way we change the world is by pointing this shit out.
    Last edited by Taumpy; 14 Jan 2011 at 11:32 AM.
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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    I'm pretty sure AP guidelines require the use of pronouns that match a person's gender identity.

    Of course they also refer to her as a transvestite, so yeah.

    Also:
    For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."-Martin Luther King, Jr.
    As to the article, I agree with Zuul, who is both more beautiful and more intelligent than I. I think any prison stands to be pretty hostile toward someone who is trans, regardless of what direction they're going and where they are in their transition.
    Last edited by RabbitMage; 14 Jan 2011 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Caffeine

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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Taumpy View post
    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    Zuul, you expect the entire world to drag itself out of the past with the pronoun issue. It is not atrocious, it is fairly normal and still changing. Change won't come overnight. I won't suggest patience but I will suggest the world is not and will not change at the pace you want.
    Jim, the only way we change the world is by pointing this shit out.
    And that is good, keep pointing it out, just on this board you've gotten through to me and others and thus change will keep happening. But I felt "absolutely atrocious" was pretty strong for something that is still the normal.

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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    And since I should probably actually answer the OP: I don't see how making a deal to get her sentence commuted to probation or something is any different than all sorts of other deals cons make all the time. As was already pointed out, being in a men's prison is a dangerous place for someone who identifies as a woman. I would have no problem putting her in women's prison, but perhaps confined in a more solitary way until she is farther along in her transition. Although I'm not particularly keen on imprisoning people for drug charges.
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    Wanna cuddle? RabbitMage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    And that is good, keep pointing it out, just on this board you've gotten through to me and others and thus change will keep happening. But I felt "absolutely atrocious" was pretty strong for something that is still the normal.
    Yes ma'am, you sure do have a point there. Have a good day, miss.

  9. #9
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Jim, it's not "normal" in journalism. As professional writing, it is absolutely atrocious. The AP stylebook says to use the pronouns consistent with the gender the person lives as and similar conventions are expected of most reputable news outlets. If she is "miss" to the judge, then she is "she" to the reporter. These are the things that are expected in professional writing.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zuul View post
    Jim, it's not "normal" in journalism. As professional writing, it is absolutely atrocious. The AP stylebook says to use the pronouns consistent with the gender the person lives as and similar conventions are expected of most reputable news outlets. If she is "miss" to the judge, then she is "she" to the reporter. These are the things that are expected in professional writing.
    OK, I'll take your word on that. I don't even generally read the paper anymore. So I will admit to full ignorance on this.

  11. #11
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    Yeah, I don't see anything different about this than any other suspended sentence. There were mitigating circumstances all around, so it was within the judge's rights to say "Prison bad. Be home by 9:00."

    As for the way the article was written, there was a really clear bias, I thought, against the idea that the woman's sexual identity should have been a factor. I have to agree with what others have said here. I don't care if she has a penis. If everyone you're interviewing identifies her as a woman, there's no reason to identify her otherwise.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  12. #12
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    Yeah, I don't see anything different about this than any other suspended sentence. There were mitigating circumstances all around, so it was within the judge's rights to say "Prison bad. Be home by 9:00."
    I'm not sure how much good the curfew does to prevent her from continuing to deal drugs if that's the goal, though. Unless maybe the curfew is in addition to her having to be somewhere all day long, which is how those sorts of situations have been handled around here with people who work but are under house arrest.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  13. #13
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
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    That's what I'm assuming is the case, though the article doesn't mention anything else. But, if she has somebody coming to enforce that curfew, or do spot checks of the house, or so-forth, it might be more of a deterrent.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  14. #14
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    Two kilos of kat huh. Yah he should have gone to jail, I don't really care about his personal life.

    I also don't care about people calling him a man, it's because ... wait for it.. he is one.

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