Wikileaks: The USA Files.
So Wikileaks has decided to release a lot of detail about USA communications from its embassies and people in the field.
It was supposed to be a lot of dirty laundry being aired for all to see, but as far as I can see most of it was pretty much general, albeit unofficial, news.
- Arabs afraid of Iran's nuclear programme.
- There is corruption in Pakistan.
- The USA trusts no-one as they are not american.
and so on...
So when do we get the really juicy gossip?
More on the disappointment here
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
I'm not sure what you are expecting, but the leaks seem pretty serious as it names names of where the US got information in many cases. It will make continuing to gather information tougher.
As to the USA not trusting anyone, is that hyperbole or do you see signs of that in the leaks? I thought it was long established the US trusts very few and generally only those that speak English and maybe Germany.
As opposed to all of the other countries of the world, who are nice and friendly and send each other fruit baskets and have sleep overs to which we are NOT INVITED.Originally posted by CatInASuit
Last edited by Orual; 29 Nov 2010 at 02:36 PM.
Hey, you guys have got the wrong ideas about what a Tea Party is, so don't blame us.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
OK, if Pvt. Bradley Manning was the leak as reported, he should go to Federal Prison for the rest of his worthless life.
As to those that allowed this lax security, well it is clear a lot of careers should be ending I think.
Wikileaks itself should be brought down by any legal means possible and I hope Mr. Assange will be tried and sent to jail. This was not whistle blowing. This was simply a huge dump of information that is dangerous to the entire world. The man is a complete ass.
Why is this information dangerous and what is contained within that wasn't reasonably known?
Also, what is the difference between this and a corporate whistleblower who spills the unethical secrets of a company?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Well in most cases this was not whistle blowing unethical secrets was this?
Secondly the information about such things as China not being too happy with North Korea could destabilize a crappy situation even faster. How will Assange feels if North Korea over-reacts and bombs Seoul?
In the Middle East, he may have destabilized an already crappy situation between the Arabs and Iran with Israel stuck in the middle.
Where was this jackass's noble whistle blowing? What corrupt practice did he reveal? Did he expose black-ops torture? I mean that would clearly be a case of righteous whistle blowing. But exposing that a major Italian Pol. might host decadent parties? That is just BS tabloid crap that could set back real diplomacy.
Private Manning should definitely be punished for what he did.
I'm not sure what should be done about Assange though. It's not at all clear to me that he did anything illegal.
Nothing I've read about from the released documents sounds like anything surprising. The Arabs don't like Iran? The devil you say!
AFAICT all wikileaks have done is bring out into the open some of the more hidden aspects of diplomacy. It's not the first time its happened, and I doubt it will be the last. I will point out that in diplomatic circles, most of this stuff was probably well known. The only problem is that the general public did not know it and want to know what is going on.
It's like the town gossip deciding one day to do a website detailing everyone's indiscressions where most people knew and its a surprise to only a couple.
So a few indiscrete mutterings have been revealed, so what. There have been no state secrets revealed at all. Hearing some Americans calling for the death penalty for his actions is ludicrous. They were embarrased in a major way, but no wars are going to start over this.
Surely the problem lies more with the American diplomatic service and how it handles sensitive data?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
I don't support the calls for the death penalty - however, I do think that Pvt. Manning should be severely punished. No matter what security procedures and techniques are in place, in the end it's always going to come down to the people who have access to that data.
This doesn't change that it seems likely that there are some changes that need to be considered/implemented for data handling and access.
People, especially in the military, are expected to stand by their word. I've been out of the military for fifteen years, and free of the constraints of the UCMJ for 12. But there are still some things that I know that are covered by security classifications. I don't even think that the information is that hard to find, for someone for whom it would be comprehensible. However, I have and will continue to maintain secrecy about certain things.
I accept that there are times that the duty to be a whistleblower will sometimes trump secrecy standards expected by the military or the government - but as you said, the crap in the Wikileaks files is pretty much normal diplomatic stuff. Nothing I've heard about merits the sort of attention that would justify a whistleblowing, to my mind.
Worse, the stuff in there from the Chinese about the possibility of negotiating a chance for a real settlement in the Korean Peninsula seems to me the best sort of long-term hope that area has for peace, and simple sanity for many of the people living under the regime in North Korea. As I said in the other thread - the only way that things will rationalize in North Korea is with the willing support of China. No long term solution that they are not satisfied with will work. By publicizing negotiations that involve China suggesting that it will no longer support North Korea is going to put a serious damper on future negotiations, and press North Korea into demanding that China prove it will stand by it's ally.
Really well said Loki. I agree absolutely.
I'm curious, how did Manning have access to all this information to leak?
I guess the USA is playing dirty now, seeing as it was kicked off the Amazon cloud and is having its domain name removed.
I'm left wondering how far the USA is prepared to go to shut Wikileaks down and what this sets as a precedent for other sites that could upset the USA?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Amazon is not an arm of the US government. Blaming the actions of a private business on "the USA" in general is pretty silly.
Of course, it's always more fun to blame the whole country. We are so marvelously evil.
Last edited by Orual; 03 Dec 2010 at 11:43 AM.
I think Amazon's response was pretty reasonable, considering that they need to protect their own asses as well.
So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.
Of course it's fun to blame the USA for everything, after all, this is all your fault, they are your cables being handed out.
Paypal has joined Amazon in cutting off its main method of gaining donations. Wikileaks is beginning to run out of places it can go to.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Well, it looks like Assange has been arrested in connection with allegations of "sex by surprise" (seriously, that's the legal name for it in Sweden--surprise sex). The Daily Mail is blaming radical feminists, though I like the "they were actually American spies who seduced him" explanation, myself.
An encrypted file of even more documents has already been downloaded by over 100,000 people and supposedly the key will be released if anything further happens to him or the site. They're calling it a "thermonuclear device." CNN article here.
So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.
Somehow this just gets wierder and wierder.
Does anyone else think this will make diplomacy a little more honest or is that just wishful thinking?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Now if he really has damning secrets to reveal, maybe that would count as whistle blowing. I can dream he has something to cause real warrants for Dick Cheney.
I also fear he might have stuff that could greatly increase world problems.
I suspect he has largely nothing.
Frankly that hope is not even something I'd consider wishful thinking, but delusional on the order of wearing a banana in one's ear to keep the elephants away.
The elephants are coming?! WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME?!?!?!Frankly that hope is not even something I'd consider wishful thinking, but delusional on the order of wearing a banana in one's ear to keep the elephants away.
Unfortunately, I think Loki's right. If anything, my money is on things becoming far, far more secretive.Frankly that hope is not even something I'd consider wishful thinking, but delusional on the order of wearing a banana in one's ear to keep the elephants away.
So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.
And now the USA are likely to start extradition proceedings against Assange. Well, if he wanted to play poker with the USA, he better have a good hand because I thnk they are calling his bluff.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
I see 'OpenLeaks' is starting up. Splinters can be so annoying.
Splitters!
John Cleese is far less creepy and rapey.
So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.
I can't decide if I find Rap News entertaining or if it makes me cringe too much.
I think it's meant to have that cringe factor.
An interesting side effect of all of this is the different situations that Julian Assange and Bradley Manning have found themselves in.
Assange has high profile supporters and despite the extradition proceedings is still living a good life. It is interesting to watch the left wing press tie itself in knots between his Wikileaks crusade and the rather sordid way he has treats women like most high school jocks.
Bradley Manning has been pretty much forgotten and is currently in an isolation cell locked up for 23 hours a day, with a possible UN investigation following a complaint into whether his current treatment by the US could be considered inhumane. I wonder if he thinks did the right thing, or whether he was even the person who released the data in the first place.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
I've noticed the way that people have reacted to Manning and Assange as well and find it very telling. Assange is a tall, handsome rebel figure out there as the poster boy for WikiLeaks, accused of a violent crime (the latest reports on the allegations against him are far more disturbing than what was initially released). And he is held up as a hero and a victim of conspiracy.
Manning is known to the public by one picture. One picture that didn't have a team of stylists behind it, unlike Assange. Whenever his name comes up, even WikiLeaks supporters point out that he is believed to be a homosexual and possibly transgendered. The WikiLeaks supporters justify drawing attention to it by saying this is a motive, apparently completely unaware that by suggesting being gay will lead you to espionage they are actually echoing the reasons the federal government used to bar homosexuals from working for them. He is accused of enabling Assange, of actually sticking his neck out there to "make information free". His alleged crime isn't one of violence or misogyny, but one in keeping with the values that the WikiLeaks supporters claim to hold. If he is guilty, he's guilty of carrying out their "mission."
Yet it's the accused rapist that is defended.
So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.
OH NOES!!! I bet Assange is shaking in his stinky little boots
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...ange-dealings/
Well Julian Assange's hearing for his extradition to Sweden is finishing today.
Time to see if the European Arrest Warrant is valid or not?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
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