+ Reply to thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 58 of 58

Thread: Thoughts on Feminism in the new millenium.

  1. #51
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    There are, and historically have been, many faces of feminism, but at the core, feminism is about the well-being of women.
    That's interesting, I never thought of it that way...do you think equality between the sexes and the well-being of women are the same thing? Or that equality isn't the goal per se?

  2. #52
    A Groupie Marsilia's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,988

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    That's interesting, I never thought of it that way...do you think equality between the sexes and the well-being of women are the same thing? Or that equality isn't the goal per se?
    I'd say equality should be the expectation. I don't want to be treated better than anyone based on my gender, but I certainly don't want to be treated as less important or worthy. Now, part of this equality might be that "I won't talk about my vagina and I don't want to hear about your penis," but I think that's pretty fair.
    So, I'll whisper in the dark, hoping you'll hear me.

  3. #53
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,908

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Marsilia View post
    Now, part of this equality might be that "I won't talk about my vagina and I don't want to hear about your penis," but I think that's pretty fair.
    Is this a reference to sexual harassment or are you talking about equality = not discussing/acknowledging sex?
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  4. #54
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northwestern Ontario 48°17'42.8"N,89°23'21.2"W
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    There are, and historically have been, many faces of feminism, but at the core, feminism is about the well-being of women.
    That's interesting, I never thought of it that way...do you think equality between the sexes and the well-being of women are the same thing? Or that equality isn't the goal per se?
    Equality is a necessary but not sufficient tool for women to use in working toward reaching optimal well-being.

    For example, it is pretty hard for women to better their lots without equality before the law, and equality in education. Equality before the law and equality in education are necessary.

    Equality, however is not sufficient to work toward optimal well-being.

    One example is equality in employment. Equality in employment does not address the issue of child bearing and child rearing, which sets women back in their careers. Feminism, being about the well-being of women, includes working toward maternity leave, affordable day care, and development and promotion of programs that make it possible for women who are raising children to continue with their careers on a full or part-time basis, or to re-enter the workforce and catch up with their careers at a later date, rather than be relegated to the employment scrap heap.

    Another example is equality in health care. There is equality in health care between the sexes, but the system falls down in meeting the needs of the working poor, which disproportionally harms women because they tend to be poorer in the first place due to employment inequities (lower pay for the same work), due to career hits taken to have children, due to usually being the single parent in broken homes, and due to their tending to sacrifice their own health for the sake of their families when times are very tight. Feminism, being about the well-being of women, includes working toward a health system that meets the needs of women.

    Fortunately, improving the state of women tends to also improve the state of everyone. An employment inequity that helps women who have children still move forward with their careers helps everyone by helping the economy. A re-direction of wealth into the health care system to help women receive the health care they need helps everyone by providing greater access to health care for all. When it comes to feminism, it is win-win for all, despite feminism being about the well-being of women.

  5. #55
    Clueless but well-meaning Hatshepsut's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    2,832

    Default

    I'm late to this thread, and now Sarafeena and Muffin have articulated most of what I would say. But maybe I can add a few observations based on the fact I am one of Mello's oldest and farthest-flung posters.

    First, there is no question that things are MUCH better in America than they used to be. The casual sexism in "Mad Men" may be laid on a bit thick, but my own experience as a young woman in the 1970's was not all that different.

    Second, there is still a ways to go before true equality occurs in the US. Here in Jakarta (and this was true in Egypt and Mozambique as well) I am surrounded by American women who do not work. In fact, the typical expatriate family here closely resembles a nuclear family of the 1950s or 1960s, where all of the father's energy goes into work and the mother takes nearly exclusive responsibility for seeing to the needs of the children. Part of this is due to the fact that "trailing spouses," the term used to describe the partners who came along because their spouse got a job in a foreign country, have a great deal of difficulty finding work due to legal and practical barriers. But if that were ALL that were going on, we would see equal numbers of unemployed expatriate men who accompanied their wives.

    In a strange sort of way, living as part of a foreign community tends to accentuate the fundamental aspects of one's culture, perhaps because one can see them more clearly when they are in constant relief against the surrounding zeitgeist. On that basis, I would say that there is still a strong strain of male domination in the American workplace that has yet to be obliterated.

    Third and finally, it's my own belief that real equality will not be achieved until it is global. Most of the discussion in this thread treats feminism, culture, and current attitudes as if there were only one country in the world. Yet the life of a woman in the US bears only passing relationship to that of a woman in Sweden, and almost none to that of a woman in Saudi Arabia or Cameroon. Do women in countries where women are more repressed desire greater freedom and opportunity? The evidence - in the form of a few brave feminists who speak out, in the fact that most women embrace birth control when it is offered - suggest that on the whole, the desire for choice and self-actualization is a universal human trait that transcends gender and individual culture.

  6. #56
    A Dude Peeta Mellark's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Hatshepsut View post
    Third and finally, it's my own belief that real equality will not be achieved until it is global. Most of the discussion in this thread treats feminism, culture, and current attitudes as if there were only one country in the world. Yet the life of a woman in the US bears only passing relationship to that of a woman in Sweden, and almost none to that of a woman in Saudi Arabia or Cameroon.
    I think the fact that they bear little resemblance to one another is a huge reason as to why there isn't more discussion here about it. When discussing first world problems like whether or not to stay at home with your children, it'd be somewhat arrogant to try to compare your plight to those of women in Saudi Arabia. I recognize how minor my own personal goals for equality are in comparison to countries where gay men are regularly and publicly killed, but that doesn't mean I can't care about and focus on solving my own problems.

    When it comes to issues like equality and personal freedom, they are so wrapped up in cultural expectations and beliefs that it can be absolutely overwhelming to try to look at the big picture. There may be similar fears and biases behind the problems in different countries, but the cultural beliefs and methods for dealing with them are too different for a one-size fits all sollution.

  7. #57
    Clueless but well-meaning Hatshepsut's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    2,832

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Peeta Mellark View post
    I think the fact that they bear little resemblance to one another is a huge reason as to why there isn't more discussion here about it. When discussing first world problems like whether or not to stay at home with your children, it'd be somewhat arrogant to try to compare your plight to those of women in Saudi Arabia. I recognize how minor my own personal goals for equality are in comparison to countries where gay men are regularly and publicly killed, but that doesn't mean I can't care about and focus on solving my own problems.

    When it comes to issues like equality and personal freedom, they are so wrapped up in cultural expectations and beliefs that it can be absolutely overwhelming to try to look at the big picture. There may be similar fears and biases behind the problems in different countries, but the cultural beliefs and methods for dealing with them are too different for a one-size fits all sollution.
    True, and well-said, but that state of affairs is diminishing as globalization increases. Besides which, the US still exerts a huge cultural influence across the world via movies and TV (recall the oft-cited fact that The Cosby Show was one of the most popular TV shows in South Africa). Moreover, the US (and other donor countries) generally make certain values - foremost among them, gender equity - a key facet of their aid programs.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that the division is not as stark as you may think. "The fact that [American and international struggles to overcome repression based on gender, sexual identity, etc.] bear little resemblance to one another" is part of the reason that the international context gets ignored in a discussion like this one. But really, I think the fact that Americans are on the whole oblivious to the rest of the world has just as much to do with it. I can't support this assertion with any statistics, of course, but I think it's true that individuals from countries outside the US are far more likely to frame their discussion of culture-dependent concerns in a wider context. There is more acknowledgment that a larger framework can be a valuable tool for understanding and analyzing what is happening at home.

  8. #58
    A Dude Peeta Mellark's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    You're probably right. I think a large part of it is that US culture is so omnipresent when it comes to entertainment. It's considered strange or even snobbish to watch movies and television shows from other countries here. The fact we're a large country and thus geographically isolated from our neighbors if we wish it helps. For all that America is called a melting pot, it allows for incredible cultural isolation. In many ways, it's just easier to be aware of that wider context in other countries.

+ Reply to thread

Posting rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts