Jennifer Aniston calls herself a retard

[CatInASuit]

Following her last statement about women no longer requiring men, you would think she would be be slightly more careful about what she was going to say live on TV. Nope, she decides to offend people by calling herself a retard.

Although it seems to have gone down well in the studio, it appears there were several groups of people who were offended by such a remark.

More on the story here.

How common is its use in the American language. Was she just be self-deprecating or was it an offensive use of the word?

[hatesfreedom]

There's always some American getting offended by something. Either way, have you ever wanted to fuck a retard? You will.

[Zuul]

It's a very common usage, as far as I can tell. It probably isn't used much on TV or in movies because of just this sort of reaction, but I hear it in conversations all the time.

If anything, I think no longer using the word to refer to people with mental disabilities has actually made "retard" more commonly used. Now instead of referring specifically to the mentally disabled, it's just a catch all for dumb, goofy, silly, short-sighted, etc.

[Cluricaun]

Retard means slow. If she referred to herself as slow on television nobody would be that surprised or excited about it, and since the word she used is a synonym it should'nt be a big deal. Now if she instead called herself a "giant waterheaded harelipped downs baby" that would be wrong.

[fachverwirrt]

If anything, I think no longer using the word to refer to people with mental disabilities has actually made "retard" more commonly used. Now instead of referring specifically to the mentally disabled, it's just a catch all for dumb, goofy, silly, short-sighted, etc.

I think as of last year it's been changed to "Intellectually Disabled" but up until very recently, MR (Mentally Retarded) was the term of art for Special Education purposes, at least in Missouri.

[Panther Squad]

Fach - that's true. My mother has worked for the Department of Intellectual Disabilities (I think?) but for the majority of her time there it was DMR: Department of Mental Retardation. No one at her work liked the term retarded.

My mother is physically disabled and grew up in a time where all disabled persons were attempted to be treated the same. As in, my vovoa (gm) fought to make sure that she was able to go to the regular junior high school and was not, as administrators suggested, put into special education.

I don't even know how people can NOT find the word offensive, american or not. YES retarded means slow. Queer means odd. Gay means happy. But stating the word you are using IN an offensive context but claiming you are NOT does not make it so. Words are funny like that, so either deal with you're going to offend people (like me) and take our flack or stop using the word. But do not use it and say someone shouldn't be offended for very good reasons.

But if you'd like to use it in its traditional context, go ahead! retarded musical scales, processes, etc. But people can usually tell (if they really know the true meaning of the word) when you're using it in the dictionary or italicized sense.

[Panther Squad]

ARGH DOUBLE

[Zuul]

I think as of last year it's been changed to "Intellectually Disabled" but up until very recently, MR (Mentally Retarded) was the term of art for Special Education purposes, at least in Missouri.

If "intellectually disabled" is the currently accepted term, I'll use that, then.

Just for clarification: I wasn't saying that I think people should use "retard" to refer to those with disabilities. I was commenting on the fact that the word seems to have become far more common and more casually tossed around over the past twenty years or so. Maybe I was just oblivious as a child, but it didn't seem as common then. I can only remember one time hearing it used as an insult when I was prepubescent and, quite cruelly, it was a girl using it against my friend who'd suffered oxygen deprivation during her birth.

[Myrnalene]

For some reason, "retard" is the one of the words that falls through the Mellopants Net of Political Correctness. A lot of us here use it, including me, who are otherwise more careful in our speech.

But even I'm aware that it's offensive. She is a complete idiot to use it on television.

[Nrblex]

OK, I'm going against the political correctness/offenderati patrol but:

Let's imagine she had called herself "dumb" instead. People use that word all the time, right? I see it get tossed around here without apology and it's used on TV, movies, books, etc.

So let's say she called herself dumb and then a bunch of Deaf people lost their shit because OYEAH dumb is actually an offensive term referring those who are incapable of speaking.

Who here would be nodding their heads going:

For some reason, "dumb" is the one of the words that falls through the Mellopants Net of Political Correctness. A lot of us here use it, including me, who are otherwise more careful in our speech.

But even I'm aware that it's offensive. She is a complete idiot to use it on television

Also, the word idiot. From the dictionary:

a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Moron:

a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.

Imbecile:

a person of the second order in a former classification of mental retardation, above the level of idiocy, having a mental age of seven or eight years and an intelligence quotient of 25 to 50.

So you've got a lot of language clean up to do yourself before you start bitching at Jennifer Anniston.

[Myrnalene]

Nerbles, it does not matter. It is a slur used against a marginalized group that the marginalized group (and parents / family members / allies) deem especially hurtful.

It's not our place to tell them it's not offensive. And you know that.

[fachverwirrt]

I think you can also make a distinction between calling someone "retarded" vs. calling them "a retard". The former, while perhaps outdated, is a valid way to describe someone with intellectual disabilities. The latter has always been derogatory.

ETA: This is not meant to legitimize calling someone "retarded". I just think that the one is worse than the other.

[Myrnalene]

I think you can also make a distinction between calling someone "retarded" vs. calling them "a retard". The former, while perhaps outdated, is a valid way to describe someone with intellectual disabilities. The latter has always been derogatory.

^^^^
Retard has never not been an insult.

[Nrblex]

Nerbles, it does not matter. It is a slur used against a marginalized group that the marginalized group (and parents / family members / allies) deem especially hurtful.

It's not our place to tell them it's not offensive. And you know that.

There are a lot of Deaf people who deem "dumb" a slur and are hurt by it. It's not our place to tell them it's not offensive.

[Panther Squad]

Nrblex,

first, do not put words in someone's mouth. Second, you're also comparing a variety of different marginalized groups with their own unique sets of problems to suit your own needs.

[Myrnalene]

There are a lot of Deaf people who deem "dumb" a slur and are hurt by it. It's not our place to tell them it's not offensive.

Leaving aside the fact that "outdated medical descriptions" are not the same as "words that are and always have been used to hurt and demean people":

It's not our place to tell them it's not offensive.

No, it's not. If a deaf person told me that word hurt them, I would not argue with them and I would not use the word in their presence.

[Sarahfeena]

Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I'm not deaf. I'm not developmentally disabled. Who am I to say which words would be hurtful?

On the other hand, it's become a trendy expression, and I sincerely doubt the vast majority of people using it are in any way intending to be hurtful.

[Nrblex]

Nrblex,

first, do not put words in someone's mouth. Second, you're also comparing a variety of different marginalized groups with their own unique sets of problems to suit your own needs.

Look, I'm not saying I want to run around calling people retards. I don't. The thing is, the reason why we can use dumb, moron, imbecile, idiot, etc without anyone screaming foulplay is because those words had passed into common usage before the disabled had a strong public voice. It's a battle that has already been lost, but that doesn't mean they're no longer hurtful.

People like Aniston shouldn't be demonized and jumped all over, because they're not using it as hate speech. They should be educated on why those words are hurtful. And the people doing the education should realize that it is not coming from a place of hate, but a place of ignorance. The fact that dumb, moron, imbecile, idiot, etc are all in common use and don't get attention shows that taking a term that's been used to marginilize a disabled group and using it as an insult against the non-disabled is something that's been going on for a long time. If you want it to stop, flailing around and playing PC police without looking at the larger issues is just going to piss the uneducated off and they'll tune you out.

If you guys want to pretend the difference is that retard was never a medical term, go right ahead. That's not the difference. The difference is society.

[hatesfreedom]

Side 1: We're considerate caring people and if someone else is offended you have no right to go around offending them, you're all assholes!

Side 2: I'm not changing the world everytime some new group gets offended! They can love me or leave me the fuck alone! You're all a bunch of PC pussies!

That's about how this goes right.

[Myrnalene]

People like Aniston shouldn't be demonized and jumped all over, because they're not using it as hate speech. They should be educated on why those words are hurtful. And the people doing the education should realize that it is not coming from a place of hate, but a place of ignorance.

I don't know who you are arguing against. No one in this thread has demonized her or said she is hateful.

I said she should know better, and I think she should. Maybe I'm wrong there. But if you agree that the word is problematic, then uh what is your argument here?

[Nrblex]

Side 2: I'm not changing the world everytime some new group gets offended! They can love me or leave me the fuck alone! You're all a bunch of PC pussies!

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying attacking people and ignoring why they might be confused/indignant isn't how to change minds. I've had people flip the fuck out and think I was attacking them over trying to point something out and I wasn't trying to attack them. The response is a hell of a lot worse when your criticism of their ignorance involves calling them idiots.

[Exy]

The thing is, the reason why we can use dumb, moron, imbecile, idiot, etc without anyone screaming foulplay is because those words had passed into common usage before the disabled had a strong public voice. It's a battle that has already been lost, but that doesn't mean they're no longer hurtful.

The reason is that no one associates those words with medical conditions, because the fact that "imbecile" was a technical classification at some point is basically a piece of etymological trivia, not something most people know, and people don't still have the personal experience of having the doctor explain to them that their child is an imbecile and will have to be institutionalized.

[Nrblex]

I don't know who you are arguing against. No one in this thread has demonized her or said she is hateful.

I said she should know better, and I think she should. Maybe I'm wrong there. But if you agree that the word is problematic, then uh what is your argument here?

My point is that it's not a word only being used by bigots. It's not like Laura Schlessinger using "nigger." It's one that's gone into pretty common usage, far moreso even than using gay to mean lame. This "OHOWSHOCKING" response I've seen (moreso elsewhere than here) is stupid, because it isn't shocking at all.

[ivan astikov]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me!"

My dear old mum taught me that when I was about 6. It's always served me well. If you are getting offended because you think someone has you in mind when they use a particular word, you spend too much time thinking.

[Panther Squad]

My point is that it's not a word only being used by bigots. It's not like Laura Schlessinger using "nigger." It's one that's gone into pretty common usage, far moreso even than using gay to mean lame. This "OHOWSHOCKING" response I've seen (moreso elsewhere than here) is stupid, because it isn't shocking at all.

Wait. So because some people use it because they're ignorant and not bigoted and because, while this may be offensive, it's used so often that it's not worth mentioning?

I'm failing to see how this response (and the mention of Dr. L) changes anything about the original discussion. It's all smoke and none of the issues of the particular minority we are speaking of are being actually discussed.

[Panther Squad]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me!"

My dear old mum taught me that when I was about 6. It's always served me well. If you are getting offended because you think someone has you in mind when they use a particular word, you spend too much time thinking.

Thank you for your usual clarification of the issues at hand, Ivan.

Also:

you spend too much time thinking

just wanted to highlight that bit.

[Nrblex]

Wait. So because some people use it because they're ignorant and not bigoted and because, while this may be offensive, it's used so often that it's not worth mentioning?

I'm failing to see how this response (and the mention of Dr. L) changes anything about the original discussion. It's all smoke and none of the issues of the particular minority we are speaking of are being actually discussed.

So how is your response doing anything to combat this POV:

Retard means slow. If she referred to herself as slow on television nobody would be that surprised or excited about it, and since the word she used is a synonym it should'nt be a big deal. Now if she instead called herself a "giant waterheaded harelipped downs baby" that would be wrong.

?

Public figures are people and are going to occasionally, accidentally speak how they might in private in public. If you don't want them doing that, combat the private speech first. People need to be educated en masse on why the word is wrong and also what word is preferred when referring to those suffering from an intellectual disability.

I'd be pretty surprised if more than 50% of the people in America know that intellectual disability is even the preferred term now.

[Exy]

If you don't want them doing that, combat the private speech first. People need to be educated en masse on why the word is wrong and also what word is preferred when referring to those suffering from an intellectual disability.

In that case, isn't this a good teachable moment, then?

[Zuul]

Yes, it is. How will people be educated if you don't get big, public figures in on the problem? By the same token, I think Tropic Thunder ultimately did good because it began a dialogue and educated a lot of people. The DVD had a nice feature on the offensive use of "retard" as well.

We can't exactly educate people if we stay quiet because, gosh, maybe they didn't mean to be offensive.

[ivan astikov]

Thank you for your usual clarification of the issues at hand, Ivan.

Also:


just wanted to highlight that bit.

I balance my negative thinking with plenty of exercise and copious amounts of porn.