Would a lack of anonymity make the Internet a better place?

[CatInASuit]

This follows on from the new that World of Warcraft will be forcing people to use their real names when posting into any of their forums. The idea being that because you cannot hide who you are, you are more likely to be polite and constructive. One of their employees posted his own real name and promptly had all his private details about him, his family and friends posted online in a matter of hours.

How anonymous do you want the Net to be or should everyone be forced to be open about who they are. Is it easier to obnoxious and rude if no-one knows who you are and would a lack of anonymity help prevent this?

Also, do you care how much of your public and private life is online?

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Interesting question. Before I'd spent much time on the Net, I would have said I didn't give a damn if my real name is out there...I use my real name all the time IRL, and frankly most people aren't all that interested in me.

Now, though, that I've seen how many obsessive nut jobs there are on the Net, looking for victims for reasons that make sense only in their minds, I'm reluctant to put too much out there. (Realizing that the obsessive nut jobs are only a tiny portion of the net population, there's still a lot in absolute terms, and the Net brings victims into their basement bachelor apartments.)

And I realize that, just from the information I've dropped on this site, anyone with real detective skills could figure out my identity -- still, why make it easy.

[Cluricaun]

No, I don't think that it would. I think that a lot of the discussion that I've seen over the years on the various boards might not have been possible if it were "real" people, usernames allow you to take a mental step back from having heated debate be "personal" and also allow your ideas to stand alone as written without people being able to delve so much into your background that they can dismiss things so easily. All anyone would know of me is what I've written or said, no additional context keeps things honest and opens lots of minds since we have to take everyone at their word, at least initially.

That being said I don't hide my real name from anyone as my online persona isn't fabricated and I don't tell lies or stories that I'd have to try and hide from, I'm a really honest dude. I have Facebook friends from boards and I don't have a seperate alias, I use my real profile for interacting with everyone. I registered at the Dope under my real name at first because John W. Kennedy and Bryan Ekers were the first two people I really came across and I thought that was the fashion and only changed it after I figured it out otherwise. Most people here know me well enough to use my real first name in replies and I have no problem with any of you knowing that my name is Ryan Mahoney and that I live in Elgin Illinois. I don't think I'd offer that up on SA or any of the Chans quite so openly, but I am who I am and I ain't 'fraid of none of you motherfuckers.

[Clothahump]

WoW has backed off from that requirement.

In theory, however, it sounds nice on the surface - no anonymity makes for a nicer environment. In reality, it will probably cause an increase in homicides, because Person A will disagree with Person B, go to his house and shoot him in the name of free speech. The number of whackjobs posting on the Internet makes that pretty much a guarantee, IMNSHO.

[Myrnalene]

Now, though, that I've seen how many obsessive nut jobs there are on the Net, looking for victims for reasons that make sense only in their minds, I'm reluctant to put too much out there.

Seriously. Anyone who has spent any time reading the snackpit knows there are some absolute lunatics right here in our own "community" (i.e., the Dopeverse). On the internet at large, there must be tens of thousands. No one should have to give more personal information than they want to.

[Exy]

Now, though, that I've seen how many obsessive nut jobs there are on the Net, looking for victims for reasons that make sense only in their minds, I'm reluctant to put too much out there. (Realizing that the obsessive nut jobs are only a tiny portion of the net population, there's still a lot in absolute terms, and the Net brings victims into their basement bachelor apartments.)

Yep.

I used to be pretty careless with my personal details but, well, I've been taught the better of it.

[Panther Squad]

My primary concern would be the minors on WoW who are especially vulnerable to predators as their parents may not realize what a complex social structure WoW can have for dedicated players.

However, I've been on boards that were very insular and, even if you weren't friends, you knew people who were friends of other people on the boards -- meaning it was very easy to find out lies someone may be posting about themselves online. I can definitely say that that made people less likely to troll, although fights were just as common.

I know it may sound backwards and I'm clearly not backing this up with any stony facts or what have you -- but it's better too for the people out there that still would slander others. All they'd have to do is troll the wrong person and find out they're in the same city, etc. Then suddenly WoW's message board became the breeding ground for a beat down. Because I can tell you if I found out some trolls I've seen existed in my meatspace they'd find themselves confronted with their own words in the middle of the supermarket.

Or I would absolutely go to their work and tell their coworkers and the store what they'd said online. Then ask them for their justification in person.

Because people should really learn that you need to stand behind what you say. It's not for a messageboard to enforce, but that chick behind that blog learned real hard, real quick that if you talk enough shit and make someone dedicated enough, they will find out who you are. Then you best be prepared.

[Panther Squad]

double post!

[Taumpy]

In makes sense in theory (in a really naive kind of way) that forcing everyone to expose their own private info would give every person the incentive to do as you would have done unto you, but it just doesn't work that way.

Usenet is a great example of why it doesn't work. A lot of people there post under their real names, and in some of the communities people get taken less seriously because they post under pseudonyms (some people, at least. I've seen it often enough). So there is (or was. I haven't read there for years) some social pressure there to use one's real name. One other thing usenet is known for? There are a lot of fucking crazy people there, also posting under their real names (presumably) who will stalk and harass others for years on end, and write slanderous things long after their target has stopped posting.

You could make an argument this happens because usenet is unmoderated, but I think it'd happen anywhere. Besides, mods can't exactly stop someone from figuring out somebody's address/phone number and then posting it somewhere else. Or using them.

[Tinker]

Pseudonymity on internet message boards will cease to exist very shortly. It's pretty easy to figure out who someone is. There was this woman on another board that I went the rounds with, and she started getting all personal so I started stripping aways her pseudonymity by highlighting personal data she had given in her posts in order to build a profile. She flipped her shit in a big way when I guessed what town she lived in correctly. Natural Language Processing will soon come into its own and the notion of pseudonymity will be blown away by anyone who has the budget to pay for the analysis. Not long after that Natural Language Processing software will become available to consumers.

I've never been really big about hiding my identity. I've met a lot of people in person from various internet forums I've participated in.

[Exy]

I started stripping aways her pseudonymity by highlighting personal data she had given in her posts in order to build a profile.

See? Like I said.

[Inner Stickler]

Umm, that's creepy. You shouldn't tell people you do that.

[Orual]

She flipped her shit in a big way when I guessed what town she lived in correctly.

Yeah, it's crazy the way people don't like whack-jobs on the internet stalking them.

I'm not as cautious as I could be, but I like to keep the bulk of my internettings anonymous. Too many nutbars in the world.

[Tinker]

Umm, that's creepy. You shouldn't tell people you do that.

Actually, people on that forum generally hated her and I was told mostly that it was frigging hilarious. It wasn't very hard to do. I used three data points. She mentioned being in the Southwest in an 'arts mecca' so that narrowed it down to about 5 towns. Then she eliminated a few towns during my probing. Finally she mentioned a weather system, so I looked at the weather report to see what towns that weather system was affecting. That was as far as I took it. I just guessed at towns and she freaked out.

Likely even since Exy has curtailed his giving people personal information, I could still do it based on information gleaned from his posts.

If you really don't want people to know where you are, don't talk about the weather like, EVER. It's the easiest way to tell where someone is located. Mention 3 snowstorms and your position can be triangulated. Lets say you live in Montana and you saw it's snowing, so it's snowing in Montana, Wyoming, Alberta, Oregon and a separate system has it snowing over the Northeast. Then another time you mention that it's snowing, but this time the snow storm covers Montana, Alberta and the Dakotas but it's not snowing in Connecticut or the Pacific NW states. Each time you mention a weather system, the search field gets narrower and narrower.

Most people protecting their pseudonymity won't even think to curtail talking about the weather.

So you can say, "Eww don't talk about that, it's creepy.", or you can realize I'm giving you valuable info on how to protect your pseudonymity.

For myself, I live in Northern Manhattan. I don't really care much at all if you know who I am. If you want to find out, I'll make you work for it. But it's really not very hard to figure out who people are.

[Tinker]

Yeah, it's crazy the way people don't like whack-jobs on the internet stalking them.

I have a more stringent definition of 'stalking'. Playing a guessing game using publically available data for about 45 minutes isn't really 'stalking' where I come from.

I'm not as cautious as I could be, but I like to keep the bulk of my internettings anonymous. Too many nutbars in the world.

You don't need to worry about a nutbar like me, I really don't have the attention span or the passion to search for people I meet online.

I'm merely pointing out how easy it is. And I seriously doubt many of you, even the ones who do care, have very well thought out operational security when it comes to information you share online.

Pretty much, you should assume that everything you say on the internet, even on Facebook under the deepest 'Friends only' privacy settings is publically available data.

[Myrnalene]

Playing a guessing game using publically available data for about 45 minutes isn't really 'stalking' where I come from.

But it's a seriously fucking disturbing way to spend your time.

[Inner Stickler]

Oh, well if she's a nutbar, then obviously she doesn't deserve to have her privacy respected. It's right there in the constitution just after clams don't belong in tomato juice but before the section on tasteful floral prints.

[Tinker]

But it's a seriously fucking disturbing way to spend your time.

If you say so. I didn't actually take it any farther than what I described. The point I was making was, "Don't think you can be a heinous bitch and that no one on the internet can find you.", I made the point quite clearly. As it was on a message board regarding a pseudonymous author who liked to write inflammatory polemics, the issue of pseudonymity was a pretty constant topic of discussion. He was outed by someone who dilligently researched who he was as well. Not me. I guessed where he lived correctly to within a mile though before I knew who he was.

Oh, well if she's a nutbar, then obviously she doesn't deserve to have her privacy respected. It's right there in the constitution just after clams don't belong in tomato juice but before the section on tasteful floral prints.

What does the constitution have to do with it? I had just had a daughter and she was saying nasty things about the fact that I just had a daughter. I was kind of emotional about it and she pissed me off because I didn't like seeing my pearls trampled like that. She was saying something about how because I smoke pot my daughter was probably retarded and it was my fault.

It's all well and good to tell someone they have no social skills, that's fine. Make fun of me all you want, I'll play the fool just for amusement. But you just don't diss a new Father's firstborn daughter right after she was born.

[Exy]

Likely even since Exy has curtailed his giving people personal information, I could still do it based on information gleaned from his posts.

I'm assuming this kind of threat is against the rules, modes?

[Tinker]

I'm assuming this kind of threat is against the rules, modes?

As Myrnalene pointed out in chat when I was 'stalking' her. It wasn't a threat, merely an observation. Get over yourself, I do not care enough about you to find out personal information on you.

[Zuul]

Likely even since Exy has curtailed his giving people personal information, I could still do it based on information gleaned from his posts.

Moderator note: Whether or not this was actually meant as a threat, this (and the overall pattern of this conversation) has creeped me the hell out. Drop it.

[Exy]

So back to topic, what is it about the internet, though? I've just never in my life met anyone as nutty as some of the people I've met online. I used to use my IRL name freely online, although I wised up eventually. (Course, I know you all know where I live and at least generally what line of work I'm in, so someone who was determined could find out who I am pretty easily.)

I wouldn't have any problem with most Dumbos knowing my name but of course that would mean making it available to everyone. I didn't used to have a problem with it any more than I do in real life but there are so many nutjobs on the internet that I wised up. Where do they come from?

[Zuul]

I think there are a lot of people who have learned to "get along" in everyday society and don't appear to be especially insane, but when they step outside of those confines it soon becomes obvious that they haven't really absorbed the little bits of society we're supposed to have internalized. They don't follow laws because it's the right thing to do, but because they don't want to get caught breaking them. They're not polite because they're nice people, but because they dislike the consequences of being the raging assholes they really are.

Most people are like that to some degree about some things, but for the ones who take it to a whole other level the internet is the perfect place for their particular brand of nuttery to explode.