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Thread: Sin Taxes or Let's Screw THEM Over

  1. #1
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
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    Default Sin Taxes or Let's Screw THEM Over

    After all, it's not like they matter. And we're just doing it to help them quit, really.

    Honest.

    Even if there's no provision in the bill for raising the cigarette tax another $1.60 a pack to account for how the revenue estimates will be affected by the diminishing proportion of tobacco users who will continue to pay that part of the state's bills.

    At this point, the state is making 75% of the retail price of a pack of cigarettes off every sale. Compared to an estimate 3% profit for Philip Morris.

    I have to wonder who is the worst enabler, at this point, of tobacco addiction. Or the worst abuser of those addicted to it.


    BTW, anyone who brings up the bullshit argument about how sin taxes are dedicated to specific purposes should look to the last paragraph in the article mentioning "sweeps," where the general fun is being augmented by taking monies out of other dedicated funding. No tax, IMNSHO, is ever anything but augmenting the general fund, either directly, or by allowing general fund monies to be used elsewhere, without actually providing for any increase in spending for the dedicated programs.

  2. #2
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Sin tax is bullshit.

    It's just easy to pass. No one ever comes to the defense of cigarette smokers or Jack Daniels drinkers.

    People are outraged by gasoline tax, but most people just mumble under their breath when they hear that smokes are going up another buck.

    Frankly, the lottery is just another sin tax, or as my buddy puts it, "a tax on people who are bad at math."

    In Illinois, I am pretty sure that the return on raising cigarette taxes has got to be in decline. Cigarettes are almost $7.00 a pack in most locations.

    God help you if money is tight and you can't manage to quit.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  3. #3
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
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    Agreed 100% with everything both of you said. I think it's a load of BS that the government raises cigarette taxes to get people to quit, anyway. If everyone who smokes in this state quit tomorrow, the state budget would be screwed royally. It's really just a tax they can get away with.

  4. #4
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki View post
    BTW, anyone who brings up the bullshit argument about how sin taxes are dedicated to specific purposes should look to the last paragraph in the article mentioning "sweeps," where the general fun is being augmented by taking monies out of other dedicated funding. No tax, IMNSHO, is ever anything but augmenting the general fund, either directly, or by allowing general fund monies to be used elsewhere, without actually providing for any increase in spending for the dedicated programs.
    Illinois pulled this crap with Lotto revenue. The money made from Lotto was earmarked for the education fund, which sounds fine, but...but...a commensurate amount of general fund dough that was supposed to go to education was routed elsewhere. The net being that no Lotto money actually went to education.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  5. #5
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    I used to feel that smokers deserved to suffer. Dirty habits deserve scorn...and fiscal punishment.

    But...

    I have a hundred bad habits. I am just fortunate that none of them are easily taxed.

    Singling out nicotine addicts is really abusive.


    I'd like to see a tax on people who wont turn right on red (where it's legal). $1000 a pop would go a long way towards
    filling the coffers.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  6. #6
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    While I would really prefer they be open about what they are, a tax easy to pass. I have no problem with sin taxes in general. This includes the gasoline tax. This includes a sugar tax if they decide to add one. The BS about lotto and gambling being for schools and seniors is the sad way our system works. But I got over my naivete and disgust with these tactics long ago when I was still a kid and gambling in Atlantic City was passed this way. I assume no one believes these lies anymore.

    The high taxes and prices on cigarettes actually seems to be slowing teen use of cigarette and I think that is a net good. I really do believe it more the price than the anti-tobacco ad campaigns. I have no data though to support my belief.

    High Gas Tax encourages people to buy more fuel efficient cars and this is a huge gain for the country. I was probably one of the only people sad when prices came down as much as they did. A slow rise to $4.00 per gallon would be good in the long run. I would try to make exceptions for commercial vehicles on the taxes though. Just not sure of the details.

  7. #7
    For whom nothing is written. Oliveloaf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    I was probably one of the only people sad when prices came down as much as they did. A slow rise to $4.00 per gallon would be good in the long run. I would try to make exceptions for commercial vehicles on the taxes though. Just not sure of the details.
    I am all for gasoline tax.

    I wish the Fed had slapped a $1.00 a gallon tax on the stuff when prices slipped back to the $2.50 range.

    There's nothing slippery about gasoline tax. You can't pretend it punishes the evil, or that your doing God's work. By taxing gas you generate revenue and encourage ecologically and (long term) fiscally responsible decision. The down side is people must pay more for gas. The argument is inherently honest.

    To pass a gas tax, you must convince people that your motives have merit and that there is a need for the dough. Healthy debate must follow.

    Why sin taxes suck is that there is no healthy debate. Everything is clouded in the "sin."

    Sugar is different than tobacco or liquor. Sugar consumption is not as
    obviously dirty as smoking and drinking. Now, fat kids...that's an
    argument.
    "I won't kill for money, and I won't marry for it. Other than that, I'm open to just about anything."

    -Jim Rockford

  8. #8
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by What Exit? View post
    The high taxes and prices on cigarettes actually seems to be slowing teen use of cigarette and I think that is a net good. I really do believe it more the price than the anti-tobacco ad campaigns. I have no data though to support my belief.

    I can't say - the rubric I've been using is how many HS kids are across the street from high school during lunch breaks in storms or during winter. And that seems to remain constant.

  9. #9
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
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    I'll admit I've been disgusted by the whole rhetoric about smoking and public policy ever since the days when the tobacco lawsuit settlement was being negotiated. I view what happened as a bribe offered by big tobacco to the various governments to be allowed to stay in business, which was accepted.

  10. #10
    Free Exy Cluricaun's avatar
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    I don't think it's just the price that slowed down teen smoking, it's just that less parents smoke which in turn breeds less smokers, which in turn makes for a less permissive attitude towards it in general. When I was a kid we'd pack the local Denny's until all hours just drinking coffee and smoking butt after butt. Now that you can't smoke indoors a lot of the attraction to the habit is gone. Taxes are just a conveniant way to jack up revenue under the guise of doing something moral.
    Hell, if I didn't do things just because they made me feel a bit ridiculous, I wouldn't have much of a social life. - Santo Rugger.

  11. #11
    The Apostabulous Inner Stickler's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    Agreed 100% with everything both of you said. I think it's a load of BS that the government raises cigarette taxes to get people to quit, anyway. If everyone who smokes in this state quit tomorrow, the state budget would be screwed royally. It's really just a tax they can get away with.
    All the smokers should show the state who's boss and just quit smoking. When they get no revenue from cigarette takes, the state'll have to readjust its attitudes. It'll be the Great Smokers Revolution!


    What?
    I don't think so, therefore I'm probably not.

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