+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Illegal immigration

  1. #1
    Elephant Feirefiz's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    802

    Default Illegal immigration

    There are certain things I don't understand about American immigration policy. It is primarily about positions on illegal immigration but of course that is connected to policies on legal immigration to some degree.

    I understand that you can take different positions on immigration in general. Some disagreements are caused by fundamental philosophical differences and some by different judgments of the practical effects. Of course people are also personally affected in different ways.

    Of course my understanding of the debate in the US is limited but perhaps you can help me with a few things.

    I can't help getting the impression that there is what one could call a pro illegal immigration side although I suspect that hardly anyone would self-identify as such. I can understand being in favor of either more permissive or more restrictive immigration laws but I can't really understand tolerating illegal immigration. Is my understanding correct that there is a segment of American society whose preferred response to the issue of illegal immigration is looking the other way?

    If you think the illegal immigrants are beneficial, why not make them legal? Of course this could be subject to various conditions.

    If you think they are beneficial as illegal immigrants but they wouldn't be as legal residents, then why not establish an official status as some kind of second-class resident. If you consider that objectionable, are you ok with the status quo?

    If you think illegal immigration has an overall negative effect, why isn't more being done to combat it? I understand that there are cultural reasons that make enforcement more difficult (e.g. Americans will not accept strong ID requirements.)

    Do you consider the current illegal immigrants criminals?
    Do you think they did nothing wrong?
    Do you think they did something wrong but they deserve lenience because America became complicit by looking the other way?

  2. #2
    Banned
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    This is a really provocative and interesting question and I haven't really ever thought a whole lot about it, so hopefully I won't seem too incoherent here as I try to nail down my own opinions.


    Quote Originally posted by Feirefiz View post
    I can't help getting the impression that there is what one could call a pro illegal immigration side although I suspect that hardly anyone would self-identify as such.
    I think you're right about this. There's plenty of people who hire illegal immigrants to work for them, and particularly the stereotypes would be lawn care workers/gardeners, maids, nannies, day laborers who do construction work, and agricultural workers. Almost all fruits and vegetables grown in this country are picked by migrant workers who are almost all illegal immigrants. Obviously the people hiring these workers are invested in making sure there are enough around to continue being a source of labor.

    Beyond that, I think most people on the liberal end of the political spectrum, like me, don't particularly view the presence of illegal immigrants as a major problem, at least, and don't really see there being much point to the government going after them too hard. I guess in part just because, you know, I feel bad for people in impoverished countries and admire people working to improve their lot in life even if they're breaking the law by doing so. It would probably not work out to open our borders completely -- then we likely would be swamped with more people than we can handle -- but as it is, from what I understand most illegals are paying a fair amount of tax money to support the system, or else the value of their contributions to the economy is enough to make them a net benefit, economically, even if they're not earning enough income to pay a lot of taxes. (Of course, in that case we have the uncomfortable position of recognizing that we're exploiting people by paying them unfairly low wages.)


    I can understand being in favor of either more permissive or more restrictive immigration laws but I can't really understand tolerating illegal immigration. Is my understanding correct that there is a segment of American society whose preferred response to the issue of illegal immigration is looking the other way?
    Yeah, basically. From a practical perspective, we depend in many ways on the labor of illegals, which means we can't really get rid of them all very easily. And then, of course, as exemplified by the whole situation in Arizona, a lot of us are pretty concerned that efforts to crack down on illegal immigration will result in unfair treatment of American citizens.


    If you think the illegal immigrants are beneficial, why not make them legal? Of course this could be subject to various conditions.
    That's an interesting question and I'm not sure what people would think about having a guest worker program in this country. I think to a certain extent that might rub a lot of people the wrong way. One of the striking things about American immigration law is that we've, historically, generally been pretty open to newcomers. Most countries don't have jus soli citizenship, and particularly not first world countries. I think there is something troubling to a lot of people here about making a formal group of second-class citizens. It goes against the ideals that we at least like to think our country is based on.


    Do you consider the current illegal immigrants criminals?
    Well, not really. I just don't really see it as a big enough problem to warrant it being considered a crime.


    Do you think they did nothing wrong?
    No, but what they did wrong was pretty minimal and they're likely to make up for it in what they contribute to our country.


    Do you think they did something wrong but they deserve lenience because America became complicit by looking the other way?
    Definitely; the biggest outrage to me is that in many ways we encourage it by not cracking down on businesses hiring illegals but then punish the individual people who naturally are going to seek out the economic opportunity we've created. Lots of businesses hire illegal workers and it's rare that anything is done about that, so the result is we permit these people to come here and contribute to our economy and then punish them for it. It's appalling.

  3. #3
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga. U.S.A. (Male)
    Posts
    1,485

    Default

    If you think the illegal immigrants are beneficial, why not make them legal? Of course this could be subject to various conditions.
    I do not believe illegal immigration is good for the U.S. or for the immigrants. It erodes respect for the rule of law. And creates a class of people who have no protection of the law. I do believe that immigration should be made easier for people who are just looking for a better life. But the people who are here illegally should not be rewarded by making them legal.
    Before the economic downturn we needed immigrant workers. But our politicians refuse to face reality or foment policy that reflect the needs of the country. Various industry lobbies have worked to prevent real immigration change because they profit from cheep labor that can't complain.

    Do you consider the current illegal immigrants criminals?
    Yes. They broke the law. I do not blame them though, in their place I would do the same.

    Do you think they did nothing wrong?
    Do you think they did something wrong but they deserve lenience because America became complicit by looking the other way?
    We have not been looking the other way. This debate has gone on for decades. Both mainstream political parties have entrenched positions from which they cannot back away. Both taken together creates victimization and victimhood in the immigrant population.

    I can't help getting the impression that there is what one could call a pro illegal immigration side although I suspect that hardly anyone would self-identify as such. I can understand being in favor of either more permissive or more restrictive immigration laws but I can't really understand tolerating illegal immigration.
    It all comes down to politics. The right panders to xenophobia and racism by promising to crack down on illegal immigration. And the left portrays themselves as protectors of the downtrodden. Neither side profits if immigration policy met the need America has for immigrant labor. Or if the policy protected those who came to America to start a new life. This is very stupid in a country made of immigrants. It's a similar process to how we got the war on drugs.

    Is my understanding correct that there is a segment of American society whose preferred response to the issue of illegal immigration is looking the other way?
    Is my understanding correct that there is a segment of American society whose preferred response to Any Issue is looking the other way?

    There fixed that for you. Yes, it is known as "Joe Six-Pack".
    Last edited by Glazer; 22 May 2010 at 07:09 PM.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

  4. #4
    Sophmoric Existentialist
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    777

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Glazer
    It erodes respect for the rule of law.
    I don't buy that. There are so many issues that erode respect for the rule of law! Stupid drug laws, brutal and crooked police, corrupt politicians - the plight of poor people who merely want work doesn't hit the same page, IMHO.

    I understand that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to just make them all legal, but the "guest worker" idea is workable. It makes me laugh to read that it's unAmerican to have 2 kinds of citizens. You already have, in reality if not policy. And guest workers are not citizens, anyway.

    Canadian businesses can hire guest workers from Mexico. Theoretically it is strictly controlled and, indeed, it largely is. But of course there are crooked labour contractors who abuse the system. If they're caught, the penalties are pretty heavy.
    Last edited by vison; 23 May 2010 at 12:52 PM.
    Sophmoric Existentialist

  5. #5
    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    I can't help getting the impression that there is what one could call a pro illegal immigration side although I suspect that hardly anyone would self-identify as such.
    I think many people here could appear to be pro-illegal immigration because the portion of the anti side that is loudest and most politically active is so strict and draconian in their thinking, and it's pretty obvious that a lot of that stems from racial biases. (see: recent laws in AZ) The debate is inevitably framed in such a way that it becomes "kick out the job stealing illegals who bring their drug crime from Mexico anyway" vs. "It's more complex than that. Also, you're being kind of a racist."

    I personally favor strong reform in immigration laws to make immigrating here legally easier, as well greater allowances for work visas so that people coming here for work can make fair wages, be protected under OSHA and other standards, and be taxed like everyone else. The criminals I would like to see prosecuted are the employers that are hiring illegals. But of course you'll never see anyone going after business owners when poor migrant workers make a much better scapegoat.
    Last edited by Taumpy; 23 May 2010 at 01:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    I've been thinking a lot about this since that flap here in Chicago about the HS basketball team that isn't being allowed to play in a tournament in Arizona.

    I don't really consider illegal immigrants criminals. I mean, unless they break some other law besides being here illegally. There's too much tacit looking the other way, on the part of the government and the citizens. I think it's generally accepted that if you come here and keep your nose clean, you can stay indefinitely, you can get work, your kids can get educated. I can't blame anyone for trying to get away with it. And, I am in favor of amnesty for illegals...that if they are "caught," and it can be shown that they've been contributing to the community, that that should be grounds for not being deported.

    I can't even really blame businesses for hiring illegals. The illegals want to work, and they can't get legal work. It's not going to help them for the jobs not to be available.

    I'm not sure how immigration laws should be revised, though I think they need to be. Taumpy's last paragraph there might be pretty close.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by vison View post
    I understand that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to just make them all legal, but the "guest worker" idea is workable. It makes me laugh to read that it's unAmerican to have 2 kinds of citizens. You already have, in reality if not policy. And guest workers are not citizens, anyway.
    I know, it really is ridiculous when you think about it that we basically have "guest workers" already only with no legal status, but yet I really can't stand the idea of making it official. It just seems so counter to our ideals to establish a legal category of second-class citizens.

  8. #8
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    I know, it really is ridiculous when you think about it that we basically have "guest workers" already only with no legal status, but yet I really can't stand the idea of making it official. It just seems so counter to our ideals to establish a legal category of second-class citizens.
    Yeah, that does bother me too. There's one thing I think the U.S. should always stand for, and that's equality among people. We obviously fall short of that ideal on many levels, but codifying it feels very wrong to me, as well.

  9. #9
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga. U.S.A. (Male)
    Posts
    1,485

    Default

    We already have work visa's just not in the numbers necessary. Providing workers with legal status does not equate "second class citizen" but rather gives equal protection under the law. A protection that they now are afraid to assert due to fear of deportment. I think a three year work visa, with one automatic renewal* and second renewal if said worker applies to become a citizen, would help if provided in numbers that are more realistic to the needs of society.

    *Provided worker has had near constant employment and no criminal record during his stay.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

  10. #10
    Elephant Feirefiz's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    802

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    That's an interesting question and I'm not sure what people would think about having a guest worker program in this country. I think to a certain extent that might rub a lot of people the wrong way. One of the striking things about American immigration law is that we've, historically, generally been pretty open to newcomers.
    The situation in American is different in many ways, but I have to say that here the term "guest worker" stands for past mistakes in immigration policy. Its not something you hear these days except in a historical context. Of course the term doesn't necessarily have the same connotations elsewhere and it can mean very different things.
    Quote Originally posted by vison View post
    Quote Originally posted by Glazer
    It erodes respect for the rule of law.
    I don't buy that. There are so many issues that erode respect for the rule of law! Stupid drug laws, brutal and crooked police, corrupt politicians - the plight of poor people who merely want work doesn't hit the same page, IMHO.
    I believe that if you have a law then you should mean it. Unenforced laws are harmful. If the law is such that you don't want it enforced then you should oppose that law in general.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Feirefiz View post
    The situation in American is different in many ways, but I have to say that here the term "guest worker" stands for past mistakes in immigration policy. Its not something you hear these days except in a historical context. Of course the term doesn't necessarily have the same connotations elsewhere and it can mean very different things.
    Oh, well, what's the current term for all those Turkish people in your country? I've always heard "guest worker" -- same for all the, e.g., Indonesians and Pakistanis in places like Saudi Arabia and Dubai.

  12. #12
    Elephant Feirefiz's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    802

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    Oh, well, what's the current term for all those Turkish people in your country? I've always heard "guest worker" -- same for all the, e.g., Indonesians and Pakistanis in places like Saudi Arabia and Dubai.
    It is the term for the first generation that arrived up to 1973 when the recruitment stopped. The problem is that the term evokes the old official line that those are not meant to stay and will not stay. Clinging to that far too long made successful integration even harder. In reality many of the original guest workers returned, but relatively soon it should have been obvious that many others were here to stay. Of course nowadays many are descendants of the guest workers who were born here and some arrived later but were never part of any guest worker program.

  13. #13
    Aged Turtle Wizard Clothahump's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena View post
    I've been thinking a lot about this since that flap here in Chicago about the HS basketball team that isn't being allowed to play in a tournament in Arizona.

    I don't really consider illegal immigrants criminals. I mean, unless they break some other law besides being here illegally. There's too much tacit looking the other way, on the part of the government and the citizens. I think it's generally accepted that if you come here and keep your nose clean, you can stay indefinitely, you can get work, your kids can get educated. I can't blame anyone for trying to get away with it. And, I am in favor of amnesty for illegals...that if they are "caught," and it can be shown that they've been contributing to the community, that that should be grounds for not being deported.
    That argument is basically saying, "Screw it. Let's just do away with immigration laws completely and open the borders completely." And I disagree with that 100%.

    Illegal immigrants are criminals. Period. They broke the law coming here, and it doesn't matter one hoot in hell what their reasoning was for doing so. They should all be rounded up and run out en masse, and the sooner we do it, the better. We need to stop clowning around and build the fence. And we really need to stop clowning around and start hitting employers of illegals with massive punitive fines.
    Political correctness will be the death of our country.

  14. #14
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Feirefiz View post
    I believe that if you have a law then you should mean it. Unenforced laws are harmful. If the law is such that you don't want it enforced then you should oppose that law in general.
    Well, I'm not sure your last sentence there is necessarily true. I don't disagree with immigration laws or think they shouldn't exist. I don't think my stance on the situation as it exists currently means that I just want the borders opened up, as Clothahump says. What I think is that there is tacit approval of a certain amount of illegal immigration, and once you've made a point of looking the other way, there's no reason not to just let people work their way into legal status.

  15. #15
    Free Exy Cluricaun's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Elgin IL
    Posts
    3,641

    Default

    When I get involved in this conversation I usually pose it thusly: If we were serious about stopping illegal immigrants, we would crack down really hard on the fruit and vegetable companies, the building companies and the other large employers of illegals. We should also then wave “adios” to being able to buy a package of strawberries for $1.50 or a head of lettuce for a buck or getting our lawns mowed for $15 a week. Of course, we’re not serious about it at all.

    The American consumer is the direct beneficiary of underpaid illegals and I can’t tell you how many times that people who are ranting and raving in some Lou Dobbsian Tea Party froth also don’t want to increase their grocery budget or their landscaping budget by 500%. So if you’re willing to accept the “fruits” of their labor and still somehow evoke rage at their very presence then we’re stripping away the framework of the shoddy arguments about “stealing jobs” and “overusing public services” and getting to the heart of the matter, which is racism nearly 100% of the time.

    Once we can then get to the root of the argument and speak plainly about the fact that much of the motivation in being “Supar against immagrants!” is hating brown people it’s much easier to put them in the “moron” box and move on to walking away from talking to them anymore and weeping for the amount of time that we seem to be granting to hate speak on our nightly news in the guise of sort of noble conservatism and the influence that it has on far too much of our populace.
    Hell, if I didn't do things just because they made me feel a bit ridiculous, I wouldn't have much of a social life. - Santo Rugger.

  16. #16
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central NJ (near Bree)
    Posts
    10,071

    Default

    I am willing to pay more for plenty, no problem. I also believe the produce industry is where most of the work visas should exist. I think we should crack down hard on the rest of it. Plenty of legal immigrants and citizens are willing to work crappy jobs like sheet rocking if it paid a reasonable wage and it use to before the illegals took over these fields. Landscaping is another good example where we need to see what the markets bears without illegals. Fast food could go back to getting by with kids. It is vital that manufacturing gets cleaned up as I know my white collar job relies on the blue collar jobs existing to create demand for US made products. The company I work for is clean and diligent but we know many are not.

    Construction seems to be the area taking the most hits now to illegal immigration from what I have seen and heard. Maybe this is not true, but here was a field they could not farm out and provided a good income to a lot of families. Now when jobs are already scarce competition for low bids is making more and more construction companies hire illegals for as many jobs as possible. This is pure bullshit.

    The wall seems a little crazy as I doubt it will work, but we do need to revise our work visa system and increase the fines and investigation to employers. I do agree with Clothahump on one item. Illegal entry to the US really does mean you are a criminal. However unlike Clothahump I do not think this means they are bad people, our silly laws and current enforcement is what gives these people the hope that they can improve their lives by trying to cross or sneak in. Like most things, I would prefer to find a way to make the workers legal. I also want to see jobs protected. We cannot keep losing manufacturing and continue as a country. We cannot lose the construction industry jobs either.

  17. #17
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    People who like immigration like to believe their opponents are all racists. People don't like immigration are composed of a lot of racists, but that started to change when Mexico started fighting a full scale war across the border, like right across the border. So throw in some young American girls crossing the border, getting kidnapped, being sold into the sex slave, and having the Federal Government not even open an investigation? Well you'll get some angry border states. All just cause and effect, and if you don't calm down some of these border states I can't imagine why we wouldn't see tighter laws on illegal immigrants.

  18. #18
    Free Exy Cluricaun's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Elgin IL
    Posts
    3,641

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by hatesfreedom View post
    but that started to change when Mexico started fighting a full scale war across the border, like right across the border.
    Good point. Our drug laws that have the hopefully unintended consequences of allowing a terrifying guerilla war to have been waged across the street from America has plenty to blame about illegal immigration too, but keep in mind that a lot of our current laws are based on racist presumptions of the 1930’s and 40’s, so white people being afraid of brown people is still the root cause of much of the problems.
    Hell, if I didn't do things just because they made me feel a bit ridiculous, I wouldn't have much of a social life. - Santo Rugger.

  19. #19
    Aged Turtle Wizard Clothahump's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Cluricaun View post
    When I get involved in this conversation I usually pose it thusly: If we were serious about stopping illegal immigrants, we would crack down really hard on the fruit and vegetable companies, the building companies and the other large employers of illegals. We should also then wave “adios” to being able to buy a package of strawberries for $1.50 or a head of lettuce for a buck or getting our lawns mowed for $15 a week. Of course, we’re not serious about it at all.
    I was watching a show the other day that pointed out that if we got rid of the illegals picking the veggies, the cost of the veggies would skyrocket....all the way up by about 15%. So our strawberries would go up to about $1.75 and the lettuce up to $1.15. I think I can live with that.

    Here's a study done in 1996. I imagine the difference in what it shows and the 15% is due to inflation, etc.
    Political correctness will be the death of our country.

  20. #20
    Administrator CatInASuit's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Coulsdon Cat Basket
    Posts
    10,342

    Default

    What rights do illegal immigrants have in America when they arrive. Is there a time limit before they can apply to be US citizens or is that not possible?
    In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.

  21. #21
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    They've already been considered as criminals by crossing the border without the required paperwork. They are not going to get much of a hearing at any official registry for citizenship place.

    Crossing a border should never be a crime. What you do beyond it is a different matter, and is punishable by the laws already in place.
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 25 May 2010 at 09:07 AM.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  22. #22
    Free Exy Cluricaun's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Elgin IL
    Posts
    3,641

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    What rights do illegal immigrants have in America when they arrive. Is there a time limit before they can apply to be US citizens or is that not possible?
    AFAIK it's not possible to apply to be a citizen after you've entered illegally. You have to have a clean criminal record, which of course you can't if you're already a damned criminal just for showing up.

    Interesting read, even if it is from Cracked.com and slightly funny on what one Aussie went through trying to become an American citizen legally:

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18552...tion-hell.html
    Hell, if I didn't do things just because they made me feel a bit ridiculous, I wouldn't have much of a social life. - Santo Rugger.

  23. #23
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Clothahump View post
    Illegal immigrants are criminals. Period. They broke the law coming here, and it doesn't matter one hoot in hell what their reasoning was for doing so.
    Forgot to address this before. Of course reasoning matters...motive is often considered in prosecuting crimes. I'm generally not too much of a softy when it comes to crime. However, I think there are reasonable, or at least understandable, reasons why people would go take the trouble and risk to come here illegally. Desire to work hard & give their family a leg up in the world = reasonable. Desire to use our welfare system and have richer people to steal from = unreasonable. I think likewise, it's reasonable for there to be some kind of amnesty for the first group.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by CatInASuit View post
    What rights do illegal immigrants have in America when they arrive.
    Well, most of our basic constitutional rights apply to everyone regardless of citizenship (obviously not suffrage, though.) So they have a right to a fair trial if they're arrested, and so on. Illegal immigrant children can go to school. I gather that they can receive welfare although I don't know if that's true everywhere.

  25. #25
    Oliphaunt jali's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NYer in Atlanta
    Posts
    3,464

    Default

    We need to pull down the Statue of Liberty since we obviously don't give a shit about "the huddled masses yearning to be free". Happy Independance Day.
    They weren't singing....they were just honking.
    Glee 2009

  26. #26
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    An amnesty could only encourage further immigration to the United States while doing nothing to stop the problem. More than that you seem to have all missed the point that this type of immigration is harmful to Mexico; surely they need their smartest most capable citizens more than we do. Hell they need hero's.

    Jali you're remembering a past that never existed through the tint of time. We've never given a shit about the huddled masses yearning for freedom.

    And about the frequently brought up racism card, sure that may have been true when they were a minority anti-immigrant faction that didn't have a solid point. But they do now:

    HERMOSILLO, Mexico — A massive gunbattle between rival drug and migrant-trafficking gangs near the U.S. border left 21 people dead on Thursday, prosecutors said.

    The clash occurred in a sparsely populated area about 12 miles from the Arizona border — a prime corridor for immigrant and drug smuggling.
    On Thursday, unidentified men also left a head outside the house of the favorite for Ciudad Juarez mayor, Hector Murgia, who is running for Mexico's main opposition Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI, before the vote in 12 states Sunday.
    After being chased by armed assailants through the darkened streets of Ciudad Juarez, the vehicle carrying Sandra Salas Garcia and two bodyguards was riddled with bullets Wednesday night.
    That's just this Thursday.
    Last edited by hatesfreedom; 02 Jul 2010 at 09:01 AM.

  27. #27
    Banned
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by hatesfreedom View post
    And about the frequently brought up racism card, sure that may have been true when they were a minority anti-immigrant faction that didn't have a solid point.
    Yeah, or when Arizona passed a law essentially requiring Latino citizens to carry papers.

  28. #28
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    Yeah, or when Arizona passed a law essentially requiring Latino citizens to carry papers.
    It just so happens that most Mexicans are in fact Latino. How sci fi is that?

  29. #29
    Oliphaunt The Original An Gadaí's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nowhere
    Posts
    2,933

    Default

    Am I wrong in thinking there have been immigrant amnesties before? I think most Irish illegal migrants to the US during the '70s/'80s later benefitted from an amnesty.

  30. #30
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Hah, damn. Yes, technically we've offered amnesties before. I think the most recent was one in 1986 actually.

+ Reply to thread

Posting rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts