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Thread: What a load of BS this Driving Test cash cow is!!!11"!

  1. #1
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Default What a load of BS this Driving Test cash cow is!!!11"!

    tl;dr Driving tests are a fucking scam and if I fail my next one, I'll suck a sweaty, hairy ballsack before I go legit.


    Yes, I failed my first attempt at my driving test yesterday, and I'm not best pleased!

    Having taken a mock test with a driving instructor a couple of months ago, and scoring 14 minor errors and 5 serious ones, and finishing yesterday's test with 4 minor errors and one serious one, I suppose I should be happy with my achievement, but I'm getting more annoyed the longer I think about it, hence this exorcism.

    My 'serious' error apparently occurred after I'd done my emergency stop... when I proceeded driving, I didn't exaggeratedly look over my shoulder, and that was all the rest of my test disregarded.

    I fully understand how this could be dangerous, but listen to the following scenario and tell me if you think this was a harsh judgement.

    After 30 minutes of driving through myriad types of road and traffic conditions - where my failure to observe my blind spot hadn't been a problem - we'd turned off the main drag to do my manouevres, after which I was told I'd be required to make an emergency stop.

    Coming to a t-junction, I was asked to turn left. To my right, traffic was being blocked by an articulated lorry reversing into a good's yard. As I start to pull away from the turn, he asks me to pick up speed, so we can do our stop. I've looked in my rear and driver's wing mirror and can see the wagon is still blocking the road - nothing is coming out of the road I've just turned off. Next thing, hand comes up, I stop, and after checking my mirrors, see nothing has changed behind me. He then asks me to proceed and 10 minutes later we'd finished.

    In that scenario, does my lack of an exaggerated backward glance seem like dangerous disregard for other road users? Bear in mind, I hadn't been criticised for it in any other situation. Also, prior to my lesson I'd spent a hour with my instructor doing exactly what happened in my test, and he told me if that had been my test, I'd have passed.

    Considering we have a system here where examiners know that nobody drives like they do on their test once they've passed and, doesn't even prepare you for driving on motorways, this is seeming more and more to me like a way of getting extra cash from potential motorists, and keeping the driving schools in work. Of which, most examiners were probably teachers at, before they joined the Driving Licensing Authority, and would probably like to owners of, once they've racked up enough money.

    People taking a public service vehicle driving test seem to have about a dozen inspectors on board; there should be at least 2 in on a normal driving test.
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 22 May 2010 at 07:18 AM.
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    Oliphaunt Taumpy's avatar
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    What? You mean somebody working for whatever is your version of the DMV was nitpicky about the rules? Well, there's a shocking surprise.

    I failed my first driving test too. It happens.

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    Living la vida broke-a Revs's avatar
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    Don't feel bad Ivan, I once failed a driving test test for not stopping on the white lines......in a parking lot covered in snow....the morning after a snow storm, while it was still snowing out.
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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    I failed for my sister's car which I was taking the test in not have a working emergency break and parallel parking. Driving Test givers are notoriously bad world wide I believe.

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    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Taumpy View post
    What? You mean somebody working for whatever is your version of the DMV was nitpicky about the rules? Well, there's a shocking surprise.

    I failed my first driving test too. It happens.
    It's never happened to me!

    Don't try and ruin my rant with common sense, you scoundrel.
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  6. #6
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    You should have done the shoulder check. No excuse.

  7. #7
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    You should have done the shoulder check. No excuse.
    So, for the rest of the 30+ minutes drive, when we were actually moving in active traffic positions and I never made a similar mistake, I should be deemed as a dangerous driver because I failed to do it in an artificially created situation in which there was no danger from traffic from behind, because otherwise he wouldn't have done the "emergency stop"?

    Ok, I see. Fuck you n all.
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 23 May 2010 at 01:25 PM.
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  8. #8
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    You are not mature enough to drive either.

  9. #9
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    ::sigh::

    If you say so!
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  10. #10
    Sophmoric Existentialist
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    I failed my first driving test, too. And my brother failed his because he didn't do what the tester told him to do: make an illegal left turn. My brother said, "It's an illegal left turn" and he thought it was part of the test, you know? But the tester just said, "You might as well go back to the station, kid, you failed when you argued with me." It was a little trick this guy was famous for, as it turned out, to tell the driver to do something illegal and if they did it, fail them for doing something illegal, and if they didn't, fail them for not doing it. He eventually lost his job when he made a pass at the mayor's daughter.

    But I agree, the shoulder check is massively important and you have to get into the habit of doing it every single time. My car has an electronic warning light for the blind spot, but I don't depend on it, I look over my shoulder anyway, since the other vehicle I commonly drive doesn't have that feature. Same with the backup cameras, etc. They're cool and swell, but they can fail, and if you depend on them instead of your own eyes, you could wind up dead or killing someone.
    Sophmoric Existentialist

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    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    I get all that, but if you are in the middle of a parking lot with nobody around, and you do a manoeuvre without a thorough check, it is a far different scenario from doing it in a place where are there a lots of potential hazards.

    Another point that has come to me is this, only 1 in 8 test participants are asked to do the "emergency stop" manoeuvre, so that means 7 out of 8 are getting a better chance of a pass than others, as there is one less thing to fail on. It's my belief now that if you fail on an actual manoeuvre that others aren't even being tested on, you should only get a fail if you've also committed a serious mistake on the actual traffic run, or other tasks.
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 24 May 2010 at 01:07 PM.
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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    I get all that, but if you are in the middle of a parking lot with nobody around, and you do a manoeuvre without a thorough check, it is a far different scenario from doing it in a place where are there a lots of potential hazards.

    Another point that has come to me is this, only 1 in 8 test participants are asked to do the "emergency stop" manoeuvre, so that means 7 out of 8 are getting a better chance of a pass than others, as there is one less thing to fail on. It's my belief now that if you fail on an actual manoeuvre that others aren't even being tested on, you should only get a fail if you've also committed a serious mistake on the actual traffic run, or other tasks.
    ivan I feel for you but in the end, new drivers cause the most accidents and all they can do before unleashing new drivers is be picky on a test and try to get you really think about the details. "Attention to Detail" is important and you just have to study and play the game. There is so much that becomes second nature after a while that is still all new to you now. By ensuring you know the basics they hope you can get to the more comfortable spot without wrecking the car, property or injuring yourself or others.

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    I'm not exactly a "new driver", Jim. Although it's not something I should declare to my examiner, from the age of 25 to 31, I was driving up and down the country illegally, and never caused a single accident. Despite a long break before getting behind the wheel again, I've also been driving an elderly woman around on a provisional license for the last 13 mths, and she does not allow me to do anything reckless. ( She smacks my wrist! )

    So, point is, I'm not a teenager about to go on the road alone for the first time in my life.
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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    I'm not exactly a "new driver", Jim. Although it's not something I should declare to my examiner, from the age of 25 to 31, I was driving up and down the country illegally, and never caused a single accident. Despite a long break before getting behind the wheel again, I've also been driving an elderly woman around on a provisional license for the last 13 mths, and she does not allow me to do anything reckless. ( She smacks my wrist! )

    So, point is, I'm not a teenager about to go on the road alone for the first time in my life.
    Makes sense but they're not set up for your circumstances but for everyone's. They really do have to assume the worse and of course some are just assholes. Big Fish in little pond syndrome.
    Last edited by What Exit?; 24 May 2010 at 02:42 PM.

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    Does the above-mentioned system of only giving 1 in 8 a particular test, and that being a deal-breaker even if it's the only failure, sound fair to you? Is your US test run similarly?

    And how much of a test is it really, when it doesn't even take into account driving on motorways?
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 24 May 2010 at 03:03 PM.
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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    US is inconsistent also and allows the test giver to be a dick if he wants to be.

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    Allowing one person to have all that power is asking to have some insecure prick who happens to be an examiner, take advantage of it.

    They should have 2 examiners, then at least you have a 50:50 chance that one is a prick!
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    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    Or alternatively, you could simply use correct driving procedure by doing a shoulder check, and pass the course, rather than make a serious mistake, fail the course, and blame everyone but yourself for your error.

    Suck it up, learn from your error, and take responsibility for where you find yourself. Then go back and perform properly at the next test.

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    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    Allowing one person to have all that power is asking to have some insecure prick who happens to be an examiner, take advantage of it.

    They should have 2 examiners, then at least you have a 50:50 chance that one is a prick!

    Pretty much boils down to you know what to expect now even if you didn't before. So just be ready for everything. Be thorough and pass the test and never worry about it again.

  20. #20
    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    They should have 2 examiners, then at least you have a 50:50 chance that one is a prick!
    Why not just have someone else drive the car during the test for you?
    Last edited by Muffin; 25 May 2010 at 07:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    Or alternatively, you could simply use correct driving procedure by doing a shoulder check, and pass the course, rather than make a serious mistake, fail the course, and blame everyone but yourself for your error.

    Suck it up, learn from your error, and take responsibility for where you find yourself. Then go back and perform properly at the next test.
    These sound words of advice would be much appreciated, had I not already thought the same things myself, and you weren't trying to be such a snarky twat. See below.

    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    Why not just have someone else drive the car during the test for you?
    They have really clamped down on that lately, and besides, I needed the challenge.
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    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    After all your years of illegally and legally driving, one would have thought that a simple driving test would not have challenged you so greatly.

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    And had I been a member of the other 7/8ths of the driving examination population who weren't required to do an "emergency stop", I would have passed. These are the vagaries of life.
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    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    Bit of a logical disconnect there, blaming your failure to do a shoulder check on an emergency stop. Seriously, you are far to immature to drive.

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    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    Actually if you have time to shoulder check during an emergency stop you're not really in an emergency stop. Be thankful.

    Anyway, Muffin doesn't seem to like you Ivan.

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    Porosity Caster parzival's avatar
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    You should have had my test giver. I just barely passed, but got marked down a lot of points for actually checking that the road was clear. I was making a three-point turn (aka Y-turn) and the proctor said I 'took too long'. My instructor had told me to look "toward traffic, away, then toward again"; by noticeably moving my head, I almost failed.

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    Yeah, I don't know what crawled up Muffin's butt and died, but I recommend some deep cleansing breaths and maybe a beer.

    Ivan, I was lucky enough to pass my driving test the first time but my best friend from high school failed it because he failed to yield the right of way to pedestrians in a crosswalk* even after they waved at him to go through.

    *They weren't actually in the crosswalk. They were at the corner and waiting for a slowpoke to catch up with them so they waved Alex through because that's what you do to be nice to the driver. But because it was a road test and they were displaying intent to cross or something by being at the corner, he was supposed to sit and wait for them to cross. The worst part was that this happened within 30 seconds of the road test and the examiner let him drive for a whole 20 minutes before infomring him he'd failed for failing to yield.

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    Quote Originally posted by Muffin View post
    After all your years of illegally and legally driving, one would have thought that a simple driving test would not have challenged you so greatly.
    Yeah, I gotta say that I don't understand how someone could have so much experience driving and not be in the habit of checking their blind spot. That's a little scary to me.

    The thing where only some drivers are tested on emergency stops is bizarre and unfair, I agree. But the whole point of the test is that they're going to be strict and you are supposed to be on your best driving behavior. If someone gets significant things wrong on their driver's test, when they're trying to be in complete compliance with the traffic laws, it's hard to feel much confidence that they won't do even worse things while driving normally.

    PS, to everyone: I passed my driver's test the first time.

  29. #29
    Oliphaunt
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    I have never had to take a driving test.

    Michigan didn't require one until the year after I got my license. And neither Massachussetts nor California have ever disputed Michigan's claim that I can drive.


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    Exy, you're talking about test examiners being ultra cautious, but they don't carry out an important test on the greater percentage of participants, and they don't even test your confidence and abilities on a motorway.

    How rigorous is that, really?
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 25 May 2010 at 02:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    Exy, you're talking about test examiners being ultra cautious, but they don't carry out an important test on the greater percentage of participants, and they don't even test your confidence and abilities on a motorway.

    How rigorous is that, really?
    I agree -- like I said earlier, that's a stupid rule and I'm surprised by it. I haven't ever heard of any driving test over here where everyone isn't required to show exactly the same set of skills.

    I'm assuming you must have checked your blind spot other times, during lane changes, so I'm sympathetic in that it sucks to lose because of one momentary lapse in concentration, but I also think it should be pretty much an ingrained habit. I'm not always perfect about it either -- almost drove into someone a few years ago and it had to have been because I forgot to check my blind spot. But I don't think the test examiners should overlook an error that big. (Whereas, say, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is something they should and I assume do permit without failing you if you only do it once.)

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    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    I'm assuming you must have checked your blind spot other times, during lane changes, so I'm sympathetic in that it sucks to lose because of one momentary lapse in concentration,
    That's it, I think. I'm annoyed with myself as much as anything. But, I seldom make the same mistake twice, and if I do, it's usually because I need the lesson reinforcing.
    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    but I also think it should be pretty much an ingrained habit. I'm not always perfect about it either -- almost drove into someone a few years ago and it had to have been because I forgot to check my blind spot. But I don't think the test examiners should overlook an error that big.
    So, you've just done an emergency stop, you've checked all your mirrors, but forgot to look over your shoulder, you start to pull away --- what were the potential dangers to myself or other road users?

    Quote Originally posted by Exy View post
    (Whereas, say, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is something they should and I assume do permit without failing you if you only do it once.)
    But that sounds like the sort of thing that should be a failure. That time you don't come to a complete stop might be the time when an articulated lorry is crossing your path. Instant failure, no more examinations.
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 27 May 2010 at 07:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    But that sounds like the sort of thing that should be a failure. That time you don't come to a complete stop might be the time when an articulated lorry is crossing your path. Instant failure, no more examinations.
    I was talking about coming to a rolling stop where you're going maybe 4-5 k/h instead of totally stopping. That doesn't stop you from checking for trucks (and actually stopping if necessary.) If it's a quiet intersection, there's a good chance there's no one coming at all. You at least lose points on your driving test here in Michigan if you do a rolling stop, but I don't think it's instant failure.

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    Way back in the dark ages, our driver's training was run through the high schools, with a co-pay but way cheaper than private instruction. If you passed both the written exam and driving tests to get your driver's ed certificate and had the accumulated road time spent driving with a permit, bingo, instant license with zero testing by the DMV.

    Scariest thing was, they always took students in groups of three out driving. My instructor never once varied the (alpha) order we drove in, and didn't bother repeating the same instructions lest he get bored. So it wound up that as the middle driver, I never once parked the car. Not saying "oh, I didn't learn parallel parking" I never did anything other than pull to the side of the road as instructed. Only student #3 ever got to park the car, and only student #1 ever drove in reverse.
    Last edited by Queen Tonya; 27 May 2010 at 03:08 PM.
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    Yes, I'm a cat. What's it to you? Muffin's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    So, you've just done an emergency stop, you've checked all your mirrors, but forgot to look over your shoulder, you start to pull away --- what were the potential dangers to myself or other road users?
    1. It demonstrates that you do not habitually perform shoulder checks. By not habitually performing shoulder checks, you increase the probability of eventually clipping someone.

    2. It demonstrates that you are not aware of the need to look for objects that are in your blind spot, such as motorcycles or bicycles. BTW, while cycling, I have been hit twice by drivers who failed to shoulder check. By not being aware of the need to look for objects in your blind spot, you increase the probability of eventually clipping someone.
    Last edited by Muffin; 27 May 2010 at 05:04 PM.

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    Not really. All it shows is that I don't do a shoulder check in situations when there is no danger I need to be aware of. Would I be expected to do a shoulder check if I was pulling out of my own garage or driveway?
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    Also, my shoulder checking ability had been checked to apparent satisfaction during my driving previous to the one in eight emergency stop procedure which I had to carry out --- which I also completed satisfactorily.

    Forget who you are replying to, and just respond to the idea. Does that seem like a fair set-up for such an important and supposedly efficient organisation?
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    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    I don't know, but if you called the DMV in America a "important and efficient organization" we would laugh so hard at you.

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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    such an important and supposedly efficient organisation?
    Yes. That's exactly what our DMVs are like. Important, and efficient. You can just see how the cheerful employees work to make sure no one has to sit around waiting for three hours just to renew their driver's license.

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    Trouble is, they have a monopoly on this granting of licences business, and it's not like the customer can pay their money and take their choice. Those fuckers need a little competition to lighten their apathy.
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  41. #41
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    Well your idea sounds crazy, but I could deal with them making a regular drivers license count on anything beneath a 150cc scooter.

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    Which idea is crazy?
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    Not really. All it shows is that I don't do a shoulder check in situations when there is no danger I need to be aware of. Would I be expected to do a shoulder check if I was pulling out of my own garage or driveway?
    Ivan the situation in which there was no danger was artificially set up. To safely test you for real life when there is real danger. You failed because you did not treat the artificial conditions as if they where real.
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    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Glazer View post
    Ivan the situation in which there was no danger was artificially set up. To safely test you for real life when there is real danger. You failed because you did not treat the artificial conditions as if they where real.
    I get that. BUT... when I have already proven I am perfectly capable of doing that in real life and real danger conditions, do you think it is a fair system that penalises someone for something that the vast majority won't even be asked to do?

    Had I not been required to do the emergency stop, the fact is, I would have passed first time and I wouldn't be moaning here.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

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    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
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    No two people get tested under the same conditions. Different streets, different times of day doesn't matter, they test you under the circumstances of your test. You failed under your circumstances. Take the test again, Pay attention. Get over it.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

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    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Glazer View post
    No two people get tested under the same conditions. Different streets, different times of day doesn't matter, they test you under the circumstances of your test.
    Yes, but you should all be expected to do the same manouevres, otherwise it is more akin to a lottery, whereby 1 in 8 are getting an extra thing to fuck up on, and the rest are getting a bye.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  47. #47
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
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    You forgot to quote the most important part of my last post.

    Quote Originally posted by Me
    Get over it.
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    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    No, Glazer. I'm completely over it already, and just dying to get another crack at it. You and others are the ones seemingly obsessed with the personal aspect of this thread, and getting all snagged up on my failure, when the point of the thread, mentioned in the first 2 lines of my OP, is that driving tests are a scam.

    All you want to do is focus on my not passing and my having a healthy moan about it, and to totally avoid the issue of whether my manner of failing was a tad unfair, and maybe an excuse to give a failure and make another £60.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  49. #49
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
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    £60. Damn the last time I had to take a driving test it was like $10. And that was 20 years ago. How often do y'all take driving test anyhow? We only do if you let your license lapse. By the way all government licenses are a scam that's a given.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

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  50. #50
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    Oh man, the British driver's licence test! It's far more rigorous than the two I've taken in the U.S.

    I failed the English one the first time, when I was 17. The vision test consisted of the examiner pointing to a license plate in the parking lot and asking me to read it. The driving part had a million aspects and the guy said I passed it. Then he gave a book with a bunch of road signs...no text...and asked me what each one meant. Fail. I passed the second time.

    In the States, it was vision test, written test, then a quick 5 minute drive with no parking demonstrations or anything, here's your license, have a nice day. I had to do it again years later after letting my license expire. The second time I clipped a curb coming out of the DMV lot and still passed.

    But don't feel bad, Ivan. My sister crashed my Mom's car the first time she took the test.

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