BEST!!! -----------> second best.

[OneCentStamp]

Submitted for your consideration, the following quote from a major American football reporting website:

"The gap in production and talent between [Jerry] Rice and the second best receiver of all-time is possibly greater than any position in any sport."

My first instinct was "No, no way, what about...?" And then I drew a blank. I've come around and I'm starting to think they're right. Here are a few of the counter-examples I briefly thought of:

- Michael Jordan vs. the 2nd best shooting guard of all time. For one thing, who is it? Kobe Bryant? Clyde Drexler? It's a pretty huge gap, whoever it is.

- Wayne Gretzky vs. the 2nd best center of all time. Lemieux? Messier? Yzerman?

With some positions, like shortstop or quarterback, we probably wouldn't even reach a consensus on who #1 was, so it would be obvious that there's no huge distance between him and #2. Does any noticeably huge gap exist between the best and second best of all time in any position in any other major sport? I couldn't think of any in baseball or soccer. If you break away from strictly team sports, I think there's as big a gap between Alexander Karelin and the second best Greco-Roman heavyweight of all time as there is between Rice and his nearest competitor, but that's about it.

[What Exit?]

Babe Ruth to the second best Right Fielder stands out pretty strongly.
For the MLB top 100 team, Lou Gehrig got more votes than anyone by far. Big Mac was a very distant second for first basemen.
Doesn't really work at the other positions.

Many say Secretariat is the greatest Race Horse by a large margin. I don't know if that is true, but he did make winning the Triple Crown look easy.

[OneCentStamp]

Gehrig is a good one. There are other guys kind of hanging around there - Murray, McCovey, Killebrew, Greenberg - but he's the clear-cut greatest first baseman of all time.

Ruth's podium is a little more crowded, to me. I mean, there's Tony Gwynn, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, and of course Hank Aaron. He's definitely the greatest RF of all time, but it's not a situation like Jerry Rice, where it's almost irrelevant who the rest of the Top 10 are or what order you put them in.

[vison]

I am as one on the Secretariat question. I really don't understand at all what it is about watching such a horse run, but I can remember standing up in my living room yelling and crying while that magnificent creature flew 30 lengths (!!!!!) ahead of the other horses to win the Triple Crown. It's strange. I never saw him "in person", but somehow his personality came across to even a TV viewer.

Next to him, and actually more important to horse breeders, was Northern Dancer. But in appeal, beauty, majesty, presence, Big Red outshone him like the Sun outshines the Moon.

[CatInASuit]

Easy one to answer and it isn't Jerry Rice.

Cricket: Don Bradman is so far ahead of everyone, it is unreal.

He is always the first person down on every All-Time Cricket XI.

[OneCentStamp]

Easy one to answer and it isn't Jerry Rice.

Cricket: Don Bradman is so far ahead of everyone, it is unreal.

He is always the first person down on every All-Time Cricket XI.

*reads Wiki*

Geez. :shock:

Thanks, CIAS. That's the kind of thing I was hoping to learn about.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Is there another light heavyweight you could compare to Archie Moore?

[OneCentStamp]

Is there another light heavyweight you could compare to Archie Moore?

No, not even close. The other great light heavies were just passing through - Evander Holyfield on his way to being an all-time great heavyweight, while Roy Jones had his true greatness in the lighter weight classes. Archie Moore was a real light heavyweight, and easily the greatest of all time.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Bobbie Orr vs. the second best defenceman of all time.

Can't think of anyone even close.

[OneCentStamp]

Bobbie Orr vs. the second best defenceman of all time.

Can't think of anyone even close.

Ray Bourque instantly came to mind, followed by Doug Harvey, but Orr is the clear #1.

[OneCentStamp]

It's premature to say so now, but at 28, Roger Federer could easily give us four or five more years of top-level tennis, which would put quite a gulf between him and Sampras and Lendl for the title of best men's tennis player ever.

[Cluricaun]

When it comes to skateboarding nobody has anything on Rodney Mullen for street skating. There are a ton of really talented skaters out there, but just watch any random Rodney Mullen video on YouTube and you'll see that he is the only person ever to be capable of doing the tricks that he does. Tony Hawk probably deserves a nod for vert skating too, but while he is usually the biggest and first others can actually try and do what he does. Rodney, not so much.

[CatInASuit]

No-one is close to Phil Taylor when it comes to darts. He has won more tournaments, has the highest average and is generally recognised as the best player ever.

Another recognised best in the game would be Jahangir Khan in Squash, who has one of the longest winning streaks in sporting history, 555 Matches over 5 Years. Once he finished in Squash, he came and dominated the USA hardball squash game as well cementing his reputation as the best.

[parzival]

It's premature to say so now, but at 28, Roger Federer could easily give us four or five more years of top-level tennis, which would put quite a gulf between him and Sampras and Lendl for the title of best men's tennis player ever.

Arguably his main competition is not Sampras or Lendl, but Rod Laver. Had Federer beaten Nadal in 2007, there'd be no question about his ranking, but now he needs to work for a few more years, and he'll probably do it.

Much as I dislike her, Serena Williams has a case for dominating tennis more than any other player.

Not to keep bringing up women's sports but Mia Hamm does not have any competition at forward. I don't even know who'd be second (though I don't follow the sport that much).

[dread pirate jimbo]

Ruth's podium is a little more crowded, to me. I mean, there's Tony Gwynn, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, and of course Hank Aaron. He's definitely the greatest RF of all time, but it's not a situation like Jerry Rice, where it's almost irrelevant who the rest of the Top 10 are or what order you put them in.

Ruth's podium is not at all crowded in RF. Yes, Aaron hit more home runs than Ruth on his career, but Ruth led the led in HRs 12 times, compared to Aaron's 4 and, when Ruth had his 60 homer season, it was fully 10% of all the home runs hit that year in the American League. Ruth completely created and defined the power hitter's role, something Aaron could never lay claim to. Also, Ruth sits at #9 for best career batting average, at .342, well ahead of any of the guys you mention -- my main man, Tony Gwynn is next, (#18 .338), followed by Clemente (#63 - .317), Aaron (#147 - .305), and Robinson (#297 - .294). And none of those other guys "lost" four years of their hitting careers at the start of their careers by being Hall-of-Fame caliber pitchers and only getting a handful of at bats every year. No comparison at all -- Ruth was far and away the greatest player in baseball history.

As to other candidates for this subject, I'd have to agree with the nominations of Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky in hockey. Orr is the only defenseman ever to lead the league on scoring. Orr had a +126 one season, while also being one of the top offensive threats in the league. Paul Coffey was almost the scorer Orr was, but was a terrible defensive player; Bourque was an excellent all-around player, but Orr was simply better than Bourque at, well, everything. And Wayne? Eight of the top ten highest scoring seasons ever were by Wayne, including the only four years of 200+ points. Oh, and he's also the runaway leader in playoff points, if you need him.

I think a case can be made for Wilt Chaimberlain at center in the NBA as well. One of only two HoFers I know of that played their entire careers without fouling out, set marks for single season scoring (50.4 ppg), rebounding (27.2 rpg) and minutes played (48.5 -- yes, that's more than a game per game) that will never, ever be matched. The only center in history to lead the league in assists (702). The only other guy in the same conversation with Wilt is his arch-rival Bill Russell, who never posted the numbers that Wilt did, but won 11 championships in 13 years. And Wilt also mixed in that 100-point game as well. And, if you believe his stories, he nailed something like 25,000 chicks in his spare time.

Those are the ones who leap to mind for me.

[OneCentStamp]

Thanks for putting Ruth's...ruthness...back into perspective for me, dpj.

[dread pirate jimbo]

Thanks for putting Ruth's...ruthness...back into perspective for me, dpj.

No problemo. I think people forget just how incredible a ballplayer the guy was. Everyone kinda knows Babe's reputation for partying and carrying on and generally recognize that he is a well-deserved Hall of Famer as the first true home run hitter, but when you start to look at the numbers, quite frankly, the Bambino was playing at a completely different level than anyone else in the game at the time. The only guy who has ever truly had a "Ruthian" season, other than Babe Ruth himself, was Barry Bonds after he had 'roided himself into a cartoon characature of a ball player, and even then he was only able to sustain it for a couple years, whereas Ruth was the best, most dangerous player in baseball for more than a decade.

[What Exit?]

Ruth was on another level. He really was. It is interesting to think about what he would have done with a good diet and exercise program but on the other hand maybe the way he lived life was just the way it worked for him. He wasn't a super-star, he was a force of nature.