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Thread: You know what? Fuck the Vatican.

  1. #1
    Porno Dealing Monster pepperlandgirl's avatar
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    Default You know what? Fuck the Vatican.

    This isn't about the rampant child abuse (we'll save that for another thread) but for absolving the Beatles. Particularly this part:

    It's true they took drugs, lived life to excess because of their success, even said they were bigger than Jesus and put out mysterious messages, that were possibly even Satanic.
    Fuck you, you fucking fucks. Let's break this down so I can really get to the source of my rage.

    1) While I can't say there were never any secret messages in Rock and Roll, I can say there were never any secret messages in Beatles music. Satanic messages? Really? I know Paul was raised Catholic, and I know that George embraced eastern philosophies and became extremely spiritual, but that is the extent of my knowledge about their religious beliefs. Why? Because they never talked about it. They never made an issue of it. John's "Bigger than Jesus" comment was misconstrued (though he was entirely accurate with what he said) and he had a good time committing blasphemy and poking at the "establishment" with a stick, but that has more to do with who John was, and not his feelings on religion in general.

    My point is that their music is areligious. The only people who invest any sort of religious meaning (or Satanic interpretation) are the fucking Catholics.

    2) "We think you're a bunch of satanic sinners but we forgive you anyway" is a pretty shitty message. I would have liked to see "We're sorry we're a bunch of cunts who willfully misinterpreted your songs and your purpose. In hindsight, that was pretty stupid of us. Actually, we really dig that "All you need is love" thing. Jesus would have found that pretty groovy."

    3) "It's true the put out "possibly" Satanic messages but definitely "mysterious" messages? It's true. I know the Catholic church has a strained relationship with the truth, but do they even care what the word means anymore? I guess that's true in the sense that it's "true" that all Catholics secretly support the Pope's decision to cover up sexual abuse.

    They may not have been the best example for the youth of the day but they were by no means the worse. Their beautiful melodies changed music and continue to give pleasure.
    Um, what? So, the church itself claims the Beatles are guilty of drug abuse, gluttony, blasphemy, and working for the devil (I'm assuming that's what Satanic messages are) but they're not the worst example for the youth of the day? Who the fuck was? The Rolling Stones because they have "sympathy for the devil"? (I doubt the Catholic church is aware that it's just a song and doesn't actually imply sympathy for Lucifer or act as a binding contract to serve His Darkness). Look, all I'm saying is that this is one hell of a mixed message. If you condemn somebody for going against God's will, the fact that they wrote some pretty great songs shouldn't necessarily absolve them from that, right? I mean, doesn't it imply that as long as you do something good, your actual crimes aren't that important? (I leave as an exercise to the reader to figure out why the Catholic church might have a vested interest in creating this sort of dynamic).

    'Thirteen albums changed the history of popular music and there is little else to add. The Beatles were the most famous and acclaimed band in the world.'
    Um, yeah, that's true. That was true 40 years ago. Why are you even saying it? If this sentence showed up in my students' work, they would definitely lose points on the assignment. Why? Because it's stupid, redundant, and pointless.

    Two years ago the Vatican forgave John Lennon for saying The Beatles were bigger than Jesus Christ, saying it was the 'boasting of an English working-class lad struggling to cope with unexpected success'.
    Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. John Lennon knew what he was saying and he knew what he was feeling at the time. BTW, for anybody who doesn't know the full quote, here it is
    "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."
    Does that sound like a man who is a "lad struggling to cope with unexpected success"? No. John was actually a pretty smart guy who had been reading up on religion at the time, and he reached the same conclusion that many people reach (and certainly was not uncommon in Europe in the 60s).

    I wish George was still alive for this. He'd have a perfect, dry, exasperated comment, probably no longer than a sentence, that would summarize the ridiculousness of the situation. Ringo has already given one:
    But Starr told CNN: "Didn't the Vatican say we were satanic or possibly satanic -- and they've still forgiven us? I think the Vatican, they've got more to talk about than the Beatles."
    I hope if Paul responds, he points out what bullshit it is. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, he tries to be more diplomatic.
    I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...

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  2. #2
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
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    For the love of little green aphids...


    Who gives a flying fuck what the Catholic Church may or may not have thought about the Beatles? I know even while I was part of the Church I never worried about their condemnation of the Fab Four. That the Vatican is wasting time, now, on this shit is really not making them look good.

    BTW, Pepper, can we get a link to the original story you're quoting?

  3. #3
    Oliphaunt
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    This is indeed bullshit. However, on a list of reasons why the Vatican should be fucked, it's pretty far down.

  4. #4
    my god, he's full of stars... OneCentStamp's avatar
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    Here's the story.

    I don't find it quite so rage-inducing as simply head-scratchingly absurd. "Vatican Forgives Beatles In 2010" is like something straight out of Dave Barry or The Onion.
    "You laugh at me because I'm different; I laugh at you because I'm on nitrous."

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  5. #5
    Porno Dealing Monster pepperlandgirl's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki View post

    BTW, Pepper, can we get a link to the original story you're quoting?
    Oops! Thought I included it. Vatican Absolves the Beatles

    Quote Originally posted by Orual View post
    This is indeed bullshit. However, on a list of reasons why the Vatican should be fucked, it's pretty far down.
    Oh, I know. But this just struck me as particularly galling today.
    I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...

    Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!

  6. #6
    Obeah Man, Mischief Maker, Lord of Bees Skald the Rhymer's avatar
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    I oppose this message. Fucking is a good thing; I enjoy it. Talk to me about unfucking the Vatican, and I can get behind it.
    "Fairy tales do not give the child his first idea of bogey. The baby has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon." (Chesterton)

  7. #7
    Oliphaunt dread pirate jimbo's avatar
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    To be fair, the Church took half a millenium to admit they may have been slightly out of line by condemning Gallileo to house arrest for life and rejecting his blasphemous notion of a helio-centric universe. This correction about the Beatles only took 40 years!
    Hell is other people.

  8. #8
    Porno Dealing Monster pepperlandgirl's avatar
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    But this isn't a correction. They decided the Beatles were guilty of certain things (some with merit like the drug use and some without merit, like the Satanic messages) and then forgave them for their so-called wrong doing (which I'm sure none of the Beatles asked for or wanted) and then released a quite ridiculous announcement in the midst of some serious, serious issues.
    I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...

    Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!

  9. #9
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    I have to agree with the RageTM on this one. What the RCC doing here is a crazy waste of time and false.

  10. #10
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Coming from the organisation that inflicted The Singing Nun upon the world, I find their criticism of The Beatles laughable.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  11. #11
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    fuckc who/?

  12. #12
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
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    whys my avatar all gay

  13. #13
    Oliphaunt dread pirate jimbo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pepperlandgirl View post
    But this isn't a correction. They decided the Beatles were guilty of certain things (some with merit like the drug use and some without merit, like the Satanic messages) and then forgave them for their so-called wrong doing (which I'm sure none of the Beatles asked for or wanted) and then released a quite ridiculous announcement in the midst of some serious, serious issues.
    It wasn't a correction, but it is the same general mindset at work. My point is simply that they've become far more progressive in the last 50 or so years, if they're gonna go around forgiving the "sins" of a rock band when it took them several hundred years to concede the scientific reality of the design of our universe.

    All in all, I'd say the Catholic Church is no more or less corrupt than any of the other religions out there -- its leaders are motivated by politics and optics; not by what their Bible teaches. The profess a set of beliefs that are fairly rigid and inflexible; they are content to pass judgment on others even as they studiously ignore the horrors that occur in their own midst. You can take 'em or leave 'em, but ultimately I don't think this is any kind of big news or anything worth getting worked up into a froth about -- just business as usual in the religion world, IMO. And so I kid around.

  14. #14
    Oliphaunt The Original An Gadaí's avatar
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    Oh I thought the OP was gonna be about how the gays caused child abuse, never mind.

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    Living la vida broke-a Revs's avatar
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    I don't know, Revolution 9 sounds like hell to me.
    Give me whiskey when I'm thirsty,Give me a cold beer when I'm dry, Give me root beer when I'm sickly, Give me a headstone when I die.

  16. #16
    Free Exy Cluricaun's avatar
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    So when do the Beatles get forgiven for being tedious, boring wankers?
    Hell, if I didn't do things just because they made me feel a bit ridiculous, I wouldn't have much of a social life. - Santo Rugger.

  17. #17
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cluricaun View post
    So when do the Beatles get forgiven for being tedious, boring wankers?
    Jeebus Chystler, what are you nattering about? The Beatles were far from tedious, boring wankers. They changed music more than most groups. They wrote music that still captures the imagination of the young.

  18. #18
    Mammuthus primigenius eleanorigby's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cluricaun View post
    So when do the Beatles get forgiven for being tedious, boring wankers?
    No, no--it's the priests who are tedious boring wankers.


    I think this is the Vatican's way of trying to be culturally relevant. I think the meeting went something like this:

    Monseigneur: "Your Holiness, I hate to bother you with this irrelevancy, given that you are immersed in attempting to find cannon law that upholds our position and all, but I do believe the in modern parlance that unwashed sinners and good Catholics are expressing some kind of disapprobation with the Mother Church. This is most puzzling, but the hoi poilloi is not quieting down as it has in centuries past. Whatever shall we do?"

    Pope: "What about those insect people? That modern music I have heard about in the past.... If I recall, when I was a mere bishop, there was a --I believe the phrase is "pop group"- that seemed to keep the masses distracted. Of course, one of the inferior mocked us and We Could Not Have That. It goes against the grain with me--who never forgets a slight--but if we were to announce that we forgave these, er, beetles, perhaps the public ire would dissipate."

    Monseigneur: "Eureka! Your Holiness, you are so wise. Truly God speaks through you. That is exactly what the Church needs now. I shall arise and compose the press release!" <kisses ring and departs>
    Last edited by eleanorigby; 13 Apr 2010 at 08:43 PM.

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