A PSA on gender, identity, & orientation

[Nrblex]

I debated with myself about whether or not to post this for a while. I can guess what will happen is that the transphobic assholes will crawl in and shit on it, but I think it serves as a valuable example of what not to say if you don't want to be perceived as an asshole. From this thread:

You don't have a penis, stop trying to coopt blowjobs.

Please don't use "coopt" about other people's identities/bodies/desires. I see this a lot from two groups: 1. angry feminists who hate men and trans people and 2. gay men who get bent out of shape about people allegedly stealing their fabulousness. Both groups suck, in a non-fun way. If somebody identifies with having a penis, it is not your place to question that.

Yeah, there are women out there who read M/M porn and really objectify gay men. It was done to lesbians for a long ass time and is still going on. (But, oh, they're women. They're used to being objectified and we can just laugh it off when they complain.) There are also female-assigned-at-birth people who identify as men or identify with aspects of masculinity. The cis-privilege I see every time the word "coopt" come up in regards to those people (MY people) makes me sick.

Holy shit, lesbians. There are plenty of men you can have sex with instead of this sad charade.

Also, please don't call somebody a lesbian who doesn't identify as such. By lumping different identities together, you are insulting lesbians, bisexuals and genderqueers right there. Doubly offensive in this case is that you're making assumptions about the gender of hir partner as well.

The general rule is you don't go mocking somebody else's identity unless you know 100% that they are cool with it or else they started it. Those of us who can be visually identified as "other" are particularly sensitive about this sort of thing. Just because your trans, or black, or disabled friends don't tell you off doesn't necessarily mean they think it's funny. And just because ONE of your friends is okay with it doesn't mean everybody is. Don't assume because one time you screwed a black guy and he liked being called Sambo while you spanked him means you can make racist jokes now.

It's like being stuck in an elevator with somebody who's farting. Sometimes it's easier just to stay quiet and get out as fast as you can. Unfortunately, there are people who think "hurr hurr, nobody hit me, I funny!"

Consider this that gentle (loving, even!) bap on the nose. Don't fart in the elevator.

[Exy]

Please don't use "coopt" about other people's identities/bodies/desires. I see this a lot from two groups: 1. angry feminists who hate men and trans people and 2. gay men who get bent out of shape about people allegedly stealing their fabulousness. Both groups suck, in a non-fun way. If somebody identifies with having a penis, it is not your place to question that.

I'm not transphobic, I'm not an angry feminist (although possibly angry and a feminist) and I tend to view "fabulousness" as the gay equivalent to shucking and jiving.

Nonetheless I'm not going to agree that something that's not a penis is a penis. Likewise, identifying as male does not give you a Y-chromosome. I do not dispute the legitimacy of transgenderism, or of a person born with XX-chromosomes and a vulva being male. I got no issue with that. It doesn't make a strap-on a penis. (In the case of Zuul, as far as I've seen, she doesn't identify as male, though.)

There are also female-assigned-at-birth people who identify as men or identify with aspects of masculinity.

Bully for them. I got no problem with that.

The cis-privilege I see every time the word "coopt" come up in regards to those people (MY people) makes me sick.

What is this, some sort of hierarchy of oppression? "Group Y is more oppressed than Group X, therefore Group X is obligated to agree with any statement by a member of Group Y"?

Also, please don't call somebody a lesbian who doesn't identify as such.

I wasn't calling Zuul a lesbian. I was calling the author of the piece of lesbian erotica she linked (the piece I was responding to) a lesbian. If that's not true my apologies -- but I'm perfectly well aware that Zuul isn't a lesbian. She's, uh, she seeing a dude at present and I gather it's pretty serious.

The general rule is you don't go mocking somebody else's identity unless you know 100% that they are cool with it or else they started it.

I'm sorry to offend but in my opinion it is not legitimate to require me to agree that a strap-on is the same as a penis and that otherwise I am "mocking someone else's identity".

Those of us who can be visually identified as "other" are particularly sensitive about this sort of thing. Just because your trans, or black, or disabled friends don't tell you off doesn't necessarily mean they think it's funny.

You don't speak for my trans, black, or disabled friends.

[Nrblex]

Once there was a crazy old hermit who lived out in the woods. The children in town decided to have a bit of fun with him, so one night they snuck out there and hid a piece of limburger cheese in his beard. When he woke up, he noticed an awful smell.

He checked under his bed to see if there was a dead animal under there. Hm, nope. Nothing. He went to see if something had knocked over his outhouse. Nope, it looked fine. Any rotten food in the kitchen? No, none of that either. He cleaned his cabin top to bottom, but couldn't find anything to explain the awful smell.

He decided to leave his cabin to get away from the stench. But if followed him! He ran and still he could smell it. He ended up all the way in town and walked down the street, sniffing here and there. The townspeople made faces of disgust at the stench and backed off from him.

Finally, having realized that wherever he went the smell remained, he came to the only logical conclusion.

THE WHOLE WORLD SMELLS LIKE SHIT!

[OneCentStamp]

I don't want to come off as a transphobic asshole, but what the fuck are you talking about?

[Exy]

I don't want to come off as a transphobic asshole, but what the fuck are you talking about?

I said Zuul doesn't have a penis. Then this.

[Cluricaun]

I don't want to come off as a transphobic asshole, but what the fuck are you talking about?

Forget it Jake, it's Trannytown.

[Nrblex]

I don't want to come off as a transphobic asshole, but what the fuck are you talking about?

Making jokes about other people's identities isn't funny to me, particularly when that mocking is implying I don't have a dick and never will and am living out a sad charade. Yes, I get it. We are freaks. Thanks.

[Exy]

Making jokes about other people's identities isn't funny to me, particularly when that mocking is implying I don't have a dick and never will and am living out a sad charade. Yes, I get it. We are freaks. Thanks.

Well, I didn't say anything like that so maybe you should concentrate on addressing the issue to someone who did.

[Nrblex]

No?

Nonetheless I'm not going to agree that something that's not a penis is a penis. Likewise, identifying as male does not give you a Y-chromosome. I do not dispute the legitimacy of transgenderism, or of a person born with XX-chromosomes and a vulva being male. I got no issue with that. It doesn't make a strap-on a penis.

The surgical options for transmen suck. For most of us, using prosthetic devices is our best bet. You don't have to want to fuck one of us, but you don't have to say this shit. An amputee with a prosthetic leg identifies with that leg as his own. He knows it's prosthetic. He knows it isn't "real." But to go all "YOU DON'T HAVE LEGS!" is kind of dickish.

[Zuul]

I think this is probably one of those issues that looks completely insane to those who haven't spent great deals of time examining how their gender conflicts with their body, and it's probably best to just take a few deep breaths and walk away. If somebody wants to learn about it from your perspective, they'll learn. If they want to hold onto their viewpoint, they're going to. Nothing you can do about it.

[OneCentStamp]

If somebody wants to learn about it from your perspective, they'll learn.

I don't think that's possible.

I think the best that I, as cisgendered and predominantly heterosexual, can learn is what not to say. In much the same way that I'll never know what it is to be black in America, but I know enough not to drop the N word.

[Exy]

For the record, I was talking about Zuul who, as far as I am aware, doesn't particularly want a penis anyway.

I am also unlikely to agree when heterosexual, cisgendered men jocularly describe themselves as "male lesbians". Or to agree when people refer to men's assholes as "cunts" (a surprisingly frequent occurrence in erotic fiction.)

[Zuul]

I don't think that's possible.

I think the best that I, as cisgendered and predominantly heterosexual, can learn is what not to say. In much the same way that I'll never know what it is to be black in America, but I know enough not to drop the N word.

Good point. I think if you're immersed in something as alien to many people as being trans, it can be difficult to realize just how baffling it can be to others. And that gets frustrating. And that causes what probably just sounds like nonsensical rantings to others who aren't immersed in it.

For the record, I was talking about Zuul who, as far as I am aware, doesn't particularly want a penis anyway.

Genderqueer is even more alien to people than trans so I don't get into it much with anyone I don't want to bone. Taking testosterone would probably cause enough growth to satisfy my penile desires (particularly with the advances in metoidioplasties), but that would also alter the other feminine qualities of my body that I'm happy with. The men in my family are huge, muscular beasts. I'd probably be similar. If I could sprout a penis tomorrow without also losing the feminine qualities of my body, I'd agree in seconds.

I went through a period where I was identifying as a transman, but quickly realized that I am happily effeminate and wouldn't want to give up how easy it is to simply be accepted as a woman, even if it would make some aspects of my life more comfortable to be seen as a man. For all intents and purposes in my day to day life, I am okay with being treated as a woman. In matters of love and sex, there are other aspects. But unless I'm involved with you or discussing sex, it doesn't really factor in.

[OneCentStamp]

Genderqueer is even more alien to people than trans so I don't get into it much with anyone I don't want to bone.

God, I wish you people would quit co-opting the verb "bone."



*d&r*

[Zuul]

Thanks, OCS.

[RabbitMage]

Nonetheless I'm not going to agree that something that's not a penis is a penis.

Exy, I have a penis. It doesn't look like the one that most guys have nor does it do everything I know penises can do, but it's still a penis, it's still a part of my body, it is my penis.

It may always be a clitoris to you, but most trans guys I know personally come to think of it as their cock.

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, you may not get it. But I assure you it is my cock and I don't like it being called otherwise, even indirectly.

I read the thread that sparked this, wrote something, and edited it out to try and keep drama down. I don't speak for anyone else, but it bothered me. I can be a big boy and walk away from something I don't like, but there's a difference in walking away from someone saying "you're dumb" vs. "all those gays have AIDS".

One is just a stupid comment, the other comes off as insensitive, offensive, and ignorant.

[Exy]

Exy, I have a penis. It doesn't look like the one that most guys have nor does it do everything I know penises can do, but it's still a penis, it's still a part of my body, it is my penis.

Yeah, what I said was that Zuul didn't, actually.

[RabbitMage]

You've offended people, Exy, and you don't seem to care or even understand why.

[Exy]

You've offended people, Exy, and you don't seem to care or even understand why.

I keep getting told I said things that I didn't say.

I'm sorry you're offended. The fact that you're offended doesn't necessarily mean you're right.

[Myrnalene]

So, did nobody here notice that he was addressing Zuul? And that he appears to have been unaware of her genderqueer identity / desire for anatomical enhancement? And that everybody is acting as though he addressed those comments to a transman, in reference to transmen?

Yeah, it was insensitive, and sometimes I make comments I realize could be insensitive (for example using "man" and "woman" as shorthand for "cisgendered man" and "cisgendered women") because for one split second OMG I forget to think about transgender issues because they don't affect my daily life.

He wasn't talking about you, or "your people", Nrblex, and probably wasn't even thinking about them. Therefore, he sure as fuck wasn't insisting that you are a freak or whatever bizarre mental processes you want to assign to him.

[Zuul]

Okay, deep breaths, cool down. This is something that probably would have been handled better with a "wait, could you clarify that because this is what I got out of this" PM. It's a mild misunderstanding that didn't need all this. I don't know if it's the post-holiday letdown or hangovers or what, but tensions are running high all over the place I've been today.

Look, let's hold hands, sing a song, etc. Let's not be torn apart by misunderstandings and anger. Let us all agree on the one thing each of us knows, deep down in our heart of hearts:



It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,
It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,
It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,

It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,
It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,
It'd be nice, to have a blowjob,

It'd be nice, to have a blowjob FROM YOUR MOM!!

[Exy]

It'd be nice, to have a blowjob FROM YOUR MOM!!

My mother is DEAD you heartless jerk.

I hope your dick falls off.

[Zuul]

Oh shit it did.

[Exy]

ps my mother is not actually dead, i have no idea how good she is at sucking dick

[OneCentStamp]

ps my mother is not actually dead, i have no idea how good she is at sucking dick

Mediocre, but she cups the balls nicely and her hands are warm.

[Exy]

Mediocre, but she cups the balls nicely and her hands are warm.

I'm more outraged at the notion of you cheating on Artifex than that you did it with my mom.

[Zuul]

I'm more outraged at the notion of you cheating on Artifex than that you did it with my mom.

Psh. Who's to say he wasn't getting it from your mom when he was eighteen? I hear she likes 'em young.

[Taumpy]

Exy, let me preface this by saying that I think very well of you and don't intend this as an attack. And I don't believe you meant to be transphobic or what have you.

Regardless of how you intended your words, though, they have been found offensive by every single transman on this board. In a situation like that, the decent thing to do is to admit you've been insensitive.

And no matter who you were addressing, or what you meant calling the way someone chooses to have sex a "sad charade" is... pretty fucked up. Because to me it's no different than, as Zuul alluded to in that thread, a heterosexual person insisting that gay sex of any sort is also a charade.

[OneCentStamp]

I'm more outraged at the notion of you cheating on Artifex than that you did it with my mom.

artifex, who had one thumb up your mom's ass at the time and the other up mine, assured me there were no boundaries being crossed.

[Glazer]

Ya gotta love a girl who's willing to be "pivot man".

[OneCentStamp]

Ya gotta love a girl who's willing to be "pivot man".

And I do love her! She completes me, or in this case, completed the nunchucks.

[Cluricaun]

Heh, nutchucks.

[Hatshepsut]

artifex, who had one thumb up your mom's ass at the time and the other up mine, assured me there were no boundaries being crossed.

I think it's a good thing I didn't know about this until AFTER our mini-mellofest at Mi Luna.

(I mean, c'mon...what would I have been THINKING about every time I looked at you guys...)

[Zuul]

I hope you washed your hands really well before eating.

[Glazer]

I hope you washed your hands really well before eating.

Hands aren't the only body part that needs washing before eating.

[Risha]

Yeah, there are women out there who read M/M porn and really objectify gay men.

I'm kind of offended by this, actually. I'm a straight woman who reads and watches M/M porn, and I'm no more objectifying the men then I am the M/F and F/F I read and watch. The guys are just a lot hotter in gay porn.

/about 50% serious (about the offense, not the porn I like)

/also kind of offended (or whatever the correct word would be - it's late and they're kind of escaping me) by Exy's comment, even though I'm cisgendered.

[Hatshepsut]

I'm kind of offended by this, actually.

Can't people disagree with the motives that have been assigned to them without expressing offense? Just say, "I think you've mischaracterized the situation. As a straight woman, my experience has been blah blah blah." Why do you have to be offended about it?

This is a serious question, by the way. If someone accused me of objectifying gay men while watching M/M porn, I'd just laugh.

[Hatshepsut]

I hope you washed your hands really well before eating.

Holy crap, it was TAPAS!!!! We shared food!!!!

[Risha]

Can't people disagree with the motives that have been assigned to them without expressing offense? Just say, "I think you've mischaracterized the situation. As a straight woman, my experience has been blah blah blah." Why do you have to be offended about it?

This is a serious question, by the way. If someone accused me of objectifying gay men while watching M/M porn, I'd just laugh.

That's why the disclaimer that I was only 50% serious. It gave me a "Huh? Is he serious?" moment, but that's it. Commenting just seemed appropriate to the theme of the thread. Maybe not - like I said, I'm tired.

[pepperlandgirl]

That's why the disclaimer that I was only 50% serious. It gave me a "Huh? Is he serious?" moment, but that's it. Commenting just seemed appropriate to the theme of the thread. Maybe not - like I said, I'm tired.

The funniest bit about the part you quoted was that in was smack-dab in the middle of an OP ostensibly defending a person who actually writes (and reads) m/m erotica for a largely female audience.

I laughed.

And then set about objectifying some more of teh gheys.

[Hatshepsut]

That's why the disclaimer that I was only 50% serious. It gave me a "Huh? Is he serious?" moment, but that's it. Commenting just seemed appropriate to the theme of the thread. Maybe not - like I said, I'm tired.

I did read the fine print, but promptly forgot it. My bad.

Nrblex, sorry my only "contributions" to this thread have been hijacks/jokes. To respond to the OP, I'm with OneCentStamp on this one - I'm not sure I really get what you're saying, but I'll be happy not to use the word "co-opt" or offer unwanted opinions on anybody's penis.

Speaking as a veteran of the feminist movement (which I hope you aren't hostile to despite your characterization of "angry feminists"), I will offer up one observation. First, an important caveat: the parallels that can be drawn between the scorn and discrimination faced (in the past; it's better now) by women and the scorn and discrimination faced by transgender individuals are limited at best. While women have historically been unfairly relegated to certain roles and limited expectations, at least no one questions the validity of their very existence. Trans people, on the other hand, are told they don't even really exist or that they're freaks. So, I know that lessons from the feminist movement may have limited application.

Having said that...a mantra of the feminist movement in the 1970s was "the personal is the political." Meaning, our individual feelings and the slights we experienced had a larger meaning and we could (and should!) share, emotively, our personal responses to situations - and we could reasonably expect this to be a basis for the larger world to change the way it looked at us.

But one could certainly make the argument that this was one of the least effective approaches taken by the modern feminist movement. Surely, concentrating on the political (or at least social) aspects - pay for women, numbers of females enrolled in college, the lack of shelters for abused women, and so forth - proved a far more powerful tool for inciting change than all the talk (and there was a lot of it) about Susie's low self-esteem when she was called a "girl" in college while her brother was called a "man."

I don't want to draw any lessons or conclusions from the feminist movement for how transgendered people fight discrimination - that's your call. But I think there is some food for thought here. (And if I've said anything you find offensive, apologies. I stand ready to be educated - or at least ready to shut up.)

[Hatshepsut]

That's why the disclaimer that I was only 50% serious. It gave me a "Huh? Is he serious?" moment, but that's it. Commenting just seemed appropriate to the theme of the thread. Maybe not - like I said, I'm tired.

I did read the fine print, but promptly forgot it. My bad.

Nrblex, sorry my only "contributions" to this thread have been hijacks/jokes. To respond to the OP, I'm with OneCentStamp on this one - I'm not sure I really get what you're saying, but I'll be happy not to use the word "co-opt" or offer unwanted opinions on anybody's penis.

Speaking as a veteran of the feminist movement (which I hope you aren't hostile to despite your characterization of "angry feminists"), I will offer up one observation. First, an important caveat: the parallels that can be drawn between the scorn and discrimination faced (in the past; it's better now) by women and the scorn and discrimination faced by transgender individuals are limited at best. While women have historically been unfairly relegated to certain roles and limited expectations, at least no one questions the validity of their very existence. Trans people, on the other hand, are told they don't even really exist or that they're freaks. So, I know that lessons from the feminist movement may have limited application.

Having said that...a mantra of the feminist movement in the 1970s was "the personal is the political." Meaning, our individual feelings and the slights we experienced had a larger meaning and we could (and should!) share, emotively, our personal responses to situations - and we could reasonably expect this to be a basis for the larger world to change the way it looked at us.

But one could certainly make the argument that this was one of the least effective approaches taken by the modern feminist movement. Surely, concentrating on the political (or at least social) aspects - pay for women, numbers of females enrolled in college, the lack of shelters for abused women, and so forth - proved a far more powerful tool for inciting change than all the talk (and there was a lot of it) about Susie's low self-esteem when she was called a "girl" in college while her brother was called a "man."

I don't want to draw any lessons or conclusions from the feminist movement for how transgendered people fight discrimination - that's your call. But I think there is some food for thought here. (And if I've said anything you find offensive, apologies. I stand ready to be educated - or at least ready to shut up.)

[Hatshepsut]

... (sorry, double post)

[Nrblex]

So, did nobody here notice that he was addressing Zuul? And that he appears to have been unaware of her genderqueer identity / desire for anatomical enhancement? And that everybody is acting as though he addressed those comments to a transman, in reference to transmen?

Yeah, it was insensitive, and sometimes I make comments I realize could be insensitive (for example using "man" and "woman" as shorthand for "cisgendered man" and "cisgendered women") because for one split second OMG I forget to think about transgender issues because they don't affect my daily life.

He wasn't talking about you, or "your people", Nrblex, and probably wasn't even thinking about them. Therefore, he sure as fuck wasn't insisting that you are a freak or whatever bizarre mental processes you want to assign to him.

By the looks of it I and the other transmen on the board were perfectly aware of the situation. I just assumed everyone else was as well, since you've got a tiny board and it's been referenced a couple times. It doesn't take me long to catch up on a few weeks worth of posts and you guys are here every day so...I assumed. Obviously the things that stand out as OMG HUGE PERSONAL REVELATION to me don't ping on your or Exy or a couple other people's radar. I forget how unaware people can be about nonstandard gender identities. Mea culpa.

I'm kind of offended by this, actually. I'm a straight woman who reads and watches M/M porn, and I'm no more objectifying the men then I am the M/F and F/F I read and watch. The guys are just a lot hotter in gay porn.

/about 50% serious (about the offense, not the porn I like)

/also kind of offended (or whatever the correct word would be - it's late and they're kind of escaping me) by Exy's comment, even though I'm cisgendered.

Oh, no, no, no, no. I did NOT mean that against the women who read M/M porn at all. I was remarking on a tendency I see among a lot of gay men who get really pissy with women for writing/reading gay porn. I'm sorry it came across that way and re-reading it I see that yeah it did. That is one of the ways I realized that I identified as a (mostly) gay man. I would not intentionally insult it. I get dramatic and sarcastic and my own point gets lost and...yeah.

I did read the fine print, but promptly forgot it. My bad.

Nrblex, sorry my only "contributions" to this thread have been hijacks/jokes. To respond to the OP, I'm with OneCentStamp on this one - I'm not sure I really get what you're saying, but I'll be happy not to use the word "co-opt" or offer unwanted opinions on anybody's penis.

Speaking as a veteran of the feminist movement (which I hope you aren't hostile to despite your characterization of "angry feminists"), I will offer up one observation. First, an important caveat: the parallels that can be drawn between the scorn and discrimination faced (in the past; it's better now) by women and the scorn and discrimination faced by transgender individuals are limited at best. While women have historically been unfairly relegated to certain roles and limited expectations, at least no one questions the validity of their very existence. Trans people, on the other hand, are told they don't even really exist or that they're freaks. So, I know that lessons from the feminist movement may have limited application.

Having said that...a mantra of the feminist movement in the 1970s was "the personal is the political." Meaning, our individual feelings and the slights we experienced had a larger meaning and we could (and should!) share, emotively, our personal responses to situations - and we could reasonably expect this to be a basis for the larger world to change the way it looked at us.

But one could certainly make the argument that this was one of the least effective approaches taken by the modern feminist movement. Surely, concentrating on the political (or at least social) aspects - pay for women, numbers of females enrolled in college, the lack of shelters for abused women, and so forth - proved a far more powerful tool for inciting change than all the talk (and there was a lot of it) about Susie's low self-esteem when she was called a "girl" in college while her brother was called a "man."

I don't want to draw any lessons or conclusions from the feminist movement for how transgendered people fight discrimination - that's your call. But I think there is some food for thought here. (And if I've said anything you find offensive, apologies. I stand ready to be educated - or at least ready to shut up.)

No, you didn't say anything offensive. I get what you're saying and you're probably right and I probably overreacted. I don't think all feminists are angry, I should point out. Thereis a particular type who is anti-man, anti-trans and does things like has "womyn born womyn only" gatherings and call transwomen men in dresses and transmen victims of internalized misogyny and that is what I was referencing there. Those are the people who use "coopt" to refer to bodies and those are the people who get me instantly on the defense and looking to see what I'm going to be denied next. The other ones who use "coopt" in an offensive manner like that are the gay men who hate on the female M/M readers and writers I mentioned above.

So maybe it would've been handled better by a PM or something. I don't know. I didn't start this to call Exy transphobic and I never say that in the OP. I don't think he really is. I think he was joking around. But I think most people talking about "hot tranny messes" are probably joking too and aren't really transphobic. That doesn't mean it can't be offensive and shouldn't be pointed out. If I say something that could be taken offensively (like my really poor attempt at sarcasm about women reading gay porn) I expect to have it pointed out to me so I can explain and try to avoid it. I make the mistake of assuming other people are like me in that respect.

[Risha]

No, you didn't say anything offensive. I get what you're saying and you're probably right and I probably overreacted. I don't think all feminists are angry, I should point out. Thereis a particular type who is anti-man, anti-trans and does things like has "womyn born womyn only" gatherings and call transwomen men in dresses and transmen victims of internalized misogyny and that is what I was referencing there.

Oh, those assholes. Don't even get me started on what disgusting wastes of so-called-humanity they are. I don't think there's anyone here that is like that, fortunately.

[Zuul]

Oh my God, Risha. That was as hateful as anything I've ever seen on the internet. I'd always figured the complaints about people like that were a little exaggerated. With things like that out there, I can see why some folks might end up with a hair trigger outrage.

I think I need to go find somebody to hug after that. It's like an emotional suckerpunch. Geez.

[Risha]

Oh my God, Risha. That was as hateful as anything I've ever seen on the internet. I'd always figured the complaints about people like that were a little exaggerated. With things like that out there, I can see why some folks might end up with a hair trigger outrage.

I'm sorry for the unexpected emotional blow! *hugs*

I ran across that a while back and posted it on a LJ clone as "the most disgusting thing I've read all week... hell, month" (which is why I had the link handy). And was utterly dismayed when some of the transsexuals there brushed it off as not anywhere close to the worst they had seen. I was too horrified to go looking for those worse ones.

[Zuul]

Well, stopping and thinking about, I've probably seen worse, but they were written by people who were really, really stupid. I think the fact that the woman writing that is clearly not a stupid person and simply willfully ignorant and hateful is what disturbs me the most.

There's one particular blogger who goes around joining private FtM communities to steal people's surgical pictures for her blogs to mock them for having "bought into patriarchy" and "committing hate crimes against women" by having surgery. But she is so outrageously idiotic that it just made me shake my head.

[Risha]

Well, stopping and thinking about, I've probably seen worse, but they were written by people who were really, really stupid. I think the fact that the woman writing that is clearly not a stupid person and simply willfully ignorant and hateful is what disturbs me the most.

AND her blog seems pretty popular. If I followed someone who suddenly posted something like that, I would have been out of there so fast I'd leave tire tread marks. Instead, people were meekly correcting her in the comments and getting mocked for it. *shakes head* Goes to show that being a liberal fighting for social equality doesn't preclude you also being a massively prejudiced asshole, I guess.

There's one particular blogger who goes around joining private FtM communities to steal people's surgical pictures for her blogs to mock them for having "bought into patriarchy" and "committing hate crimes against women" by having surgery. But she is so outrageously idiotic that it just made me shake my head.

That's just kind of bizarre. It seems like so much work to put in for so little return, you know?

[Sarahfeena]

The thing that pisses me off about people like that blogger is that, to her, the political is more important than the personal. That is, she doesn't care about individuals if they don't conform to what she thinks is politically important. Who is she to presume what anyone feels on the inside, you know? Who is she to tell them what the definition of being a particular gender is? I've had all kinds of experiences that are unique to cis-women, but the experiences aren't what make me female.