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Let it go, dude. It was a (pretty gentle) ribbing because you said something goofy. It doesn't have to turn into hours and hours of you angsting. I know Wednesday said something about me but, again, you didn't understand it. She was not warning you that I secretly hate you (like I said, I wasn't even sure who you were). It was just a joke about how Wednesday apparently doesn't have quite as high an opinion of your MESSAGE BOARD PROWESS as you do.
I'm sorry you are so upset and I'm sorry you've decided I hate you. I would have just rolled my eyes and read another thread if I realized you felt so sensitive about this issue. It was not my intention to make you feel bad.
I was intimidated by your MESSAGE BOARD PROWESS.and the one time I tried to engage you in substantive debate you simply didn't return to the thread.
Last edited by Exy; 19 Feb 2010 at 03:31 PM.
Actually, I think you are the only one who is actually upset about this.
In Team Fortress I like to play a scout. One of my favorite things to do is leap onto the enemy battlements and plug the snipers with my Force-a-Nature *POW POW*.
I didn't think Wednesday was warning me that you hate me. You think I have a higher opinion of you than I do. I think you're a sniper troll. *POW POW*
I don't think you hate me. I just think you haven't really exemplified yourself as anything other than someone who is very chuffed with themselves.I'm sorry you are so upset and I'm sorry you've decided I hate you. I would have just rolled my eyes and read another thread if I realized you felt so sensitive about this issue. It was not my intention to make you feel bad.
To be honest, where I formulated my opinion of you was in the Home-Schooling thread where you came in and sniped the opinion that my daughter should be forced by the state to be placed into an inferior schooling situation. You asked me to come up with cites saying that Home-Schoolers do better than other students. I found some studies and posted them, and then I came back to that thread for about a week and there was nothing from you.
Then when you made some comment about how you were too stoned to give much credit to my comment that sexuality is probably a lot more cultural than we give it credit for, I decided that you were a sniper. *POW POW*
I'm too stoned to pretend that I give a shit about any of this.I was intimidated by your MESSAGE BOARD PROWESS.
Based on what you said in the thread about your age related to when the internet started to saturate it seems to me that you were first discovering internet porn about the time I first started posting on the SDMB. I know how to handle trolls, good and hard.
Last edited by Tinker; 19 Feb 2010 at 03:52 PM.
"And I hope I don't get born again, 'cuz one time was enough!" -- Mark Sandman
I didn't say anything about your daughter. But no, I'm not interested in "debating" (which is a generous term for what you did) with someone who gets so incredibly bent out of shape at the thought of someone disagreeing with them. Sorry, but there's not really anything to be gotten out of that kind of thing. I'm not interesting in arguing with people who are invested in having conversations as though they were games to be won or lost. And I'm not interested in trying to discuss things with people who are busy showing off their MESSAGE BOARD PROWESS. It's just not my bag, dude. I don't get anything out of it. That's pretty much the essence of the SDMB. I like the fact that this place is not one big, long, internet dick measuring contest and since that seems to be what you're into, you'd probably have more fun going back there.Originally posted by Tinker
That only works when preceded by fewer than four paragraphs of very publicly giving a shit about it.
Look, dude, I've assured you I have nothing against you. I've apologized for hurting your feelings. I don't know what else you want me to say.
Last edited by Exy; 19 Feb 2010 at 03:56 PM.
Recap:
"I don't care about this argument."
"HA! You have proven you care about this argument by stating that. Therefore, you do care. I don't, though."
"You do. I'm the one who doesn't care."
"You so care."
"Do not. You."
"Do too."
"Whatever."
"Look how much you care!"
LOL, methinks it is actually you who is the over-sensitive one. That thread was in the 'Crucible', which is supposed to be the debate forum. If more people view passionate debate the way you do, that could explain why not as many people come to this board.
What you said to me was pretty much the equivalent as me being against gay marriage might be to you. I dunno if you care about that issue or not. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But I take it pretty seriously when people want to use the state to impose their will on a population of which they don't take part in, to the detriment of that demographic. It's nothing personal against you, just the way politics goes.
I didn't mean to offend you.That only works when preceded by fewer than four paragraphs of very publicly giving a shit about it.
I have nothing against you either. Just, when in the Trolletariat do as the Trolls do.Look, dude, I've assured you I have nothing against you. I've apologized for hurting your feelings. I don't know what else you want me to say.
"And I hope I don't get born again, 'cuz one time was enough!" -- Mark Sandman
Actually, what's nice about this place -- to me at least -- is we have interesting, informative discussions that don't turn into dick measuring contests. I'm sorry you can't understand "debate" to mean anything else.
Uh, pretty safe to say otherwise, I think.What you said to me was pretty much the equivalent as me being against gay marriage might be to you.
Fine. And I don't want to debate with someone who can't productively handle differences of opinion. There's not much to learn from people who just want to award themselves debate points for the brilliant arguments that only they think they made. That's why I left the SDMB and get my discussion fix either with real life friends or at places with a more sophisticated debate culture. So, there we go. Hence me not returning. Sorry.But I take it pretty seriously when people want to use the state to impose their will on a population of which they don't take part in, to the detriment of that demographic.
And yet you are the one who personalizes it pretty much every time. I wonder if anyone else has this experience with you.
Fair enough. Maybe you are not passionate about anything other than sniping.Uh, pretty safe to say otherwise, I think.
Heh, debates are often on passionate topics. It ain't about winning points, but the reality is you held an opinion on a particular topic on an issue that actually directly affects me and doesn't actually affect you. So it makes sense that I'd be more passionate about it than you because the point is merely academic to you, but is something that I think about and worry about every day. I am very concerned about how I can keep my daughter out of the hell-hole that is public schooling because I cannot afford Manhattan private school prices.Fine. And I don't want to debate with someone who can't productively handle differences of opinion. There's not much to learn from people who just want to award themselves debate points for the brilliant arguments that only they think they made. That's why I left the SDMB and get my discussion fix either with real life friends or at places with a more sophisticated debate culture. So, there we go. Hence me not returning. Sorry.
I'm assuming that by 'sophisticated debate culture' you mean 'not a lot of passionate dissent'.
Last edited by Tinker; 19 Feb 2010 at 04:18 PM.
"And I hope I don't get born again, 'cuz one time was enough!" -- Mark Sandman
Muffin struts proudly through the thread. Muffin is 5'6". The tall men are jealous.
More seriously, of course women like sex. The very existence of our species is proof enough of that. The more interesting question is under what circumstances do women like sex, under what circumstances do men like sex, and how might have the similarities and differences have changed in fairly recent history.
Last edited by Muffin; 19 Feb 2010 at 11:26 PM.
Boy this sure turned into a lovely little derail, eh gents?
Do women like sex? Yes they do.
Do men like sex? Not if Cosmo can do anything about it.
Could Exy and Tinker please stop this silly arguing and get back to a discussion of Tinker wearing his fuckbuddy's clothes while they were having sex? Because - and I admit, I am speaking as a woman who likes sex here - that was very interesting.
Also, "You Can Leave Your Hat On" is indeed a deliciously sexy song.
I'm a woman.
I like sex. A lot.
I've no desire for my man to wear my clothing during, though.
If there's to be a dick-measuring contest, can we have pictures?
Not really. That could be adequately explained by the supposition that women are prepared to permit sex for reasons of their own, not least in extracting material benefits from men... which brings us right back to where we came in.
On the subject of romantic fiction as a guide to what women want, I suppose the fact that I have been known to like wooden-navy fiction and the odd pulp Western would demonstrate that I would actually like to live a life of rum, sodomy and the lash ("well, who wouldn't, dearie?") or be forever watching my back for someone who figured he could draw a six-shooter faster than I could? Or indeed that the runaway success of a particular seven-book series in recent years implied that people would like to live in a world in which a bunch of bastards with magic wands might pop out of the woodwork any second armed with curses that could inflict unspeakable pain on them, or drop 'em stone dead in their tracks? Nope, thought not. But if we are to take as a guide what women like reading about or watching films about...
Then I'm forced to conclude that they like sex qua sex a durn sight less than they like wittering on about "the relationship" in ballsaching detail, and that even in romantic fiction (why yes, I have read some) they pay much less attention to mattress-pounding than they do to Taming The Stallion or getting wedlock on some feckless but eminently marriageable doctor or whatever.
Last edited by Malacandra; 20 Feb 2010 at 10:35 AM.
Malacandra, I really don't get what you are trying to accomplish in this thread by brushing aside the assurances of several female posters that yes, we like to get it on. Most definitely there are women who are uninterested in sex. Perhaps they have conflicted feelings about their sexual identity, perhaps they have had bad experiences or been the victims of abuse, perhaps they are asexual. Likewise, there are men that are interested in sex, perhaps for the same set of reasons. Maybe the prevalence of this lack of desire is higher than in women than in men, I don't know. But none of excuses the kind of stereotyping misogynist bullshit that Zuul was ranting about in her OP.
You are beating this "no matter what they say, women don't want sex" drum pretty hard and it really makes me wonder why?
Uh. Okay. Shit. I guess I'd better scrap this novel I'm writing that's 90% mattress pounding and spends scene after scene describing hot men in loving detail, with a female lead who needs no man to support her.
The insane abundance of sex toys for lesbian couples, the erotica marketed specifically to women, the years and years of market research into what titillates the female customer, and the millions of women out there every year buying how-to guides on how to have better orgasms? Forget all that. Forget what women themselves say. A man has spoken.
Because he thinks women are liars and bitches. Oh sure, he's never actually said (to my knowledge) that all women are liars and bitches, but that's what he believes. Maybe because he married a woman once who was both. Maybe it's because no women will sleep with him because every woman who meets him can tell there's something seriously wrong with him (and yes, women can be quite good at sensing the simmering resentment he clearly holds for all females). No arguments we present in this thread will convince him. He mentions romance novels and when he's told he misunderstands them, he falls back to "Well, reading fiction doesn't really tell you anything about a person anyway." Just that cute little move from using romance novels to support him and then using them to discredit the other side tells you everything you need to know about him in a debate. He believes his rep on the SDMB is undeserved, but if anything, it's probably too mild.
Well, I'm never a liar and only sometimes a bitch. I've met women who are jerks and I've met men who are jerks. But I like to take people on as individuals, and I do strive to limit my bashing of any one gender. For whatever reason Malacandra appears incapable of considering women as individuals with their own personalities and quirks. To him, we are the Vagina Borg, and he appears to be frightened, disgusted, and suspicious of the Vagina Borg. And no, I'm not just basing my assessment on this one thread (though I think if this is the only thread you've ever seen him in, you might concede I'm right). Any thread about women in general or gender issues or relationships on the SDMB will bring him in to post his (not so) unique view on how women cannot ever be trusted.
I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...
Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!
I like orgasms, and I like physical intimacy, and I'm sure they'd be wonderful at the same time, but I'm one of those women who (as Tinker so aptly put it) hasn't been "fucked properly." I think there's actually still a lot of baggage tied up in sexuality, especially female sexuality. In a lot of cases, we're given the vague idea that sex should feel good, but we're not necessarily given the tools to get there (I know my week of sex ed in high school didn't cover the function of the clitoris). And, when the sex isn't good, it's not always an easy conversation to have.
Ah, forgive me for disagreeing with women. Pepperland the psychic has arrived to discern that I think women are liars and bitches, because of course an ad hominem argument unsupported by facts proves... well, I'm not sure what it proves, exactly, but I guess it's meant to imply that everything I argue can therefore be discounted. That cute little move with the romance novels? The point I was making all along is that romance novels aren't to be taken as indications of what people want real life to be like. People read about what entertains them. There's a thriving market for books about people's shitty childhoods - it doesn't mean that anyone either wants to have a shitty childhood or inflict them on anyone.
And of course if no argument so far presented has stood up to five minutes of casual criticism from me, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the arguments - no, it's got to be that I'm congenitally incapable of accepting any point of view contrary to my own. Because, of course, I hate and fear all women.
Pepperlandgirl has said that she is not basing her assessment of me just on this one thread. In other words, she's dragging in shit from off-board, which I view as contemptible in a moderator given that mere posters are normally told not to do that.
I can't speak for the views of women I meet as to why they don't want to sleep with me, but the fact of the matter is that, as a reasonably honest married man, I ain't looking to be slept with by any other women, so the question doesn't arise, and hasn't in many years. Sorry to drop a crowbar across the live rail of your argument like that, but facts are facts, yanno? Still, smear me as a woman-hater and it saves you the bother of having to listen to me, I guess.
No, I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that certain arguments presented as conclusive are, in fact, not. But hey, consider me intimidated into compliant silence henceforth, huh? Seems some people would rather not have to listen to opinions that don't agree with their own.Originally posted by Myrnalene
Librarians rule, Oook
WHAT IS A LESBIAN YOU GUYS I DON'T GET IT
Romance novel != every other novel in the world. That's like saying because people watch movies for entertainment and some people watch horror movies, no one could possibly want to do the things that people do in pornographic movies.
I guess men don't watch porn to be titillated, right? They certainly don't in any way illustrate the fact that men like to think about sex or look at sexually stimulating material. They aren't illustrating that the guys who watch lots and lots of threesome porn are perhaps more interested in threesomes than the guys who watch lots and lots of femme Domme porn.
Some women are asexual or have low sex drives or for cultural or psychological reasons are disinterested in sex. Some women are moderately interested in sex, but are more concerned with their relationships. Some women like sex and like relationships and don't see the two as necessarily connected. Some women just like sex and don't give a shit about relationships. Basically, women are human beings.
I don't have to be a psychic to read your words and understand their meaning.
I just calls them like I sees them.And of course if no argument so far presented has stood up to five minutes of casual criticism from me, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the arguments - no, it's got to be that I'm congenitally incapable of accepting any point of view contrary to my own. Because, of course, I hate and fear all women.
I don't give a fuck if people drag shit from "off-board". What the hell are you talking about? That's not even against the rules around here. Hell, maybe if people did drag things from "off-board" we might have more posts, I don't know. But it doesn't really matter, because we're all part of a larger community here. If I see you posting the same drivel on more than one message board, I have every right to point it out. Especially if the other message board is one that most of the members here are still active posters on. You have a very extensive posting history, and I've been reading it for years and years. Do you think you post in a vacuum? Do you think nobody here is familiar with your typical style and arguments? Do you think that we're all just going to politely ignore that because it happened on another board? I have been willing to politely ignore it, until you waded into this conversation with your dick swinging, ready to tell women that they don't really like sex.Pepperlandgirl has said that she is not basing her assessment of me just on this one thread. In other words, she's dragging in shit from off-board, which I view as contemptible in a moderator given that mere posters are normally told not to do that.
So if you're not looking for women to sleep with you and you're a married man, why do you post the way you do? Seriously? I want to know. I don't really expect an honest answer because you clearly don't even see why what you post is objectionable.I can't speak for the views of women I meet as to why they don't want to sleep with me, but the fact of the matter is that, as a reasonably honest married man, I ain't looking to be slept with by any other women, so the question doesn't arise, and hasn't in many years. Sorry to drop a crowbar across the live rail of your argument like that, but facts are facts, yanno? Still, smear me as a woman-hater and it saves you the bother of having to listen to me, I guess.
What arguments aren't conclusive. "Hey, I'm a woman and I like sex." Apparently that's not conclusive. "Hey, there's this entire genre of books dedicated to appealing to women's sex drives." That's not conclusive. What would be conclusive since first hand accounts, studies, and inferences from reading habits aren't enough? Do we need to take some surveys?No, I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that certain arguments presented as conclusive are, in fact, not. But hey, consider me intimidated into compliant silence henceforth, huh? Seems some people would rather not have to listen to opinions that don't agree with their own.
And you know what else? Your other post about books is shit, too. You may not have any great desire to live in the Old West or on a ship, but you still derive a certain amount of pleasure from reading it. Something about those books pleases you, hits you where you live. I don't know what, since I don't know exactly what you read and exactly what you feel when you do. But you choose the genre you do because it appeals to you. Maybe you find pleasure in the sense of adventure. Maybe you find it because men were men and they didn't take no guff. I don't know. People read shitty childhood books because they get something out of it. Maybe they're masochists and they liked to experience vicarious pain. Maybe they had their own shitty childhood and this gives them a space to work through their issues and memories. Maybe they're perverts and they do get off on it. It doesn't really matter. When you read for pleasure, you choose something that is going to fulfill whatever need you have at that moment. When people read romance novels (and men read them too) they might have an emotional need to be filled. Or maybe they're reading stroke material. But I guarantee you that most of the women who read erotic romance are looking for stroke material. Because there's nothing else in most of those books but sex! That's the pleasure they're looking for. You're argument is stupid on its face and it gets worse the more I think about it.
Last edited by pepperlandgirl; 20 Feb 2010 at 12:59 PM.
I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...
Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!
No one is "presenting arguments as conclusive" in this thread. We are pointing to our own personal experiences, which considering we are women, seems to be pretty fucking relevant to the question of what women want. But instead of listening to us, you continue to post insulting "suppositions" likeThat's a pretty fucking offensive statement to make, so I don't know how you can be surprised that you receive some female hostility in return.women are prepared to permit sex for reasons of their own, not least in extracting material benefits from men
I don't know a thing about your dope persona so I was not biased to dislike you or anything. It just seems pretty obvious to me based on this one thread that you aren't prepared to have a give-and-take discussion or listen to anyone else over your own prejudices. I'm not interested in chasing you off, and frankly this board needs some differing opinions. But I really don't care to have discourse with someone whose brain is so calcified by their own preconceptions that they will ignore everything I say that is contrary to what they want to hear.
When you declare yourself to have won the argument, other people are not necessarily obligated to agree.
Since when are posters told not to do that? Find one single instance of it. Since you won't, you really should apologize. And feel embarrassed about being caught in an obvious lie.Pepperlandgirl has said that she is not basing her assessment of me just on this one thread. In other words, she's dragging in shit from off-board, which I view as contemptible in a moderator given that mere posters are normally told not to do that.
And yet you are completely unable to understand how your total lack of experience affects your ability to discern what women want.I can't speak for the views of women I meet as to why they don't want to sleep with me, but the fact of the matter is that, as a reasonably honest married man, I ain't looking to be slept with by any other women, so the question doesn't arise, and hasn't in many years. Sorry to drop a crowbar across the live rail of your argument like that, but facts are facts, yanno? Still, smear me as a woman-hater and it saves you the bother of having to listen to me, I guess.
And people like that will go to any ridiculous length to protect their nutty beliefs, even things as absurd as sitting their and explaining to women what their entire gender wants.Seems some people would rather not have to listen to opinions that don't agree with their own.
Jesus, Malacandra, everyone else can tell your experience is not the norm. I'm gay and I wouldn't find it all that hard to find a woman to sleep with. Keep making up absurd generalizations if you want but all your own experience proves is that no woman wants to have sex with you, not that no woman wants to have sex with anyone. Plenty of women here have attested to quite the opposite, which by any rational standard is pretty clear evidence.
Last edited by Exy; 20 Feb 2010 at 02:54 PM.
Re: "dragging shit" from other boards - I think it would be ideal if posters that may had gotten a bit of a knuckle rapping somewhere else felt they could come here and make a clean start. But, well, Malacandra referenced his own Dope reputation first, and then validated it by posting his coco-bananas ideas in this thread. Therefore I don't think it's out of bonds for pepper to bring it up, and I don't know why Malacandra would assume it's against the rules. It's against the rules at the Dope, but praise baby jesus and all the saints this is not the Dope.
Enjoy your circle jerk. After months of having no interest in this board apart from Jim's Middle-Earth D&D thread, I promise it'll be no hardship to go right back to that level of involvement.
Librarians rule, Oook
I think it's clear that women enjoy masturbating, but only have sex with men (and maybe women, I'm not clear on this part) to trick them into marriages and make them buy diamonds and fur coats and things.
I have my paddle. Who's first? Zuul, Muffin? Tink? I bet Tink likes spankings, too. Any man who wears panties must love spankings.
I've never had sex, but I agree that it is probably good, maybe. But I don't think women really want it cause I know lots of women and they never ask for it.
That only regarding you, for women what guys do into their socks.
Sadly, it's true. Women don't want socks for sex. Only men use them.
Also, be careful. The boys might leave you stiff and sticky.
Where is this Vagina Borg that pepper speaks of? I may want to sign up.
I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...
Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!
Of course women like sex, gives them a break from all the cooking and cleaning.
Give me whiskey when I'm thirsty,Give me a cold beer when I'm dry, Give me root beer when I'm sickly, Give me a headstone when I die.
I'm still swimming in harmony. I'm still dreaming of flight. I'm still lost in the waves night after night...
Do you have an idea or an article you would like to see on the Electric Elephant? Email me at theelectricelephant(at)gmail.com!
Is this common for women to like that? I've been with girls who like it and girls who don't.
No sorry I don't have pics. I might have some pics of myself in drag somewhere.
When I am thin I have an hourglass figure. Really big boney hips and a thinner waist. Right now I am older and have put on some weight.
But she seemed to enjoy it, and I enjoyed it. I like the feeling of some of the cloth that women's clothes are made out of and not mens, the way they fit is nice too. Dresses are very comfortable.
I found that there was a difference in the way women reacted to me. Women who were attracted to me were ones that found me to be hyper-masculine even when dressed in women's clothes. The ones who thought I looked girly generally didn't go for it. There's an art to being feminine on the outward appearance and masculine on the inner attitude. Most drag-queens don't pull it off, and I was never going for a drag look. I hung out around the Goth/Fetish/Drag communities a lot at that time, so that was more my style.
"And I hope I don't get born again, 'cuz one time was enough!" -- Mark Sandman